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Toyota claims the GR86 can go from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds with the manual but it looks like it can actually go under 6 seconds. Jason Cammisa was able to get 5.9 seconds without a rollout and 5.6 seconds with one.

It's not world beating by any means but still pretty solid numbers.

http://instagr.am/p/CSsZdsBFLW-/
 

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No offense, but there's no way that car gets to 60 under 5 sec. There's a huge difference between 5.6 and under 5.

Not trying to crap on the 86, it's a great car now. I really dig it.
Clearly he meant under 6.0 seconds, not five. It was a typo.
 

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Toyota claims the GR86 can go from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds with the manual but it looks like it can actually go under 6 seconds. Jason Cammisa was able to get 5.9 seconds without a rollout and 5.6 seconds with one.

It's not world beating by any means but still pretty solid numbers.

http://instagr.am/p/CSsZdsBFLW-/
As good as this car is, it could be truly great - legendary even - if it were given an optional WRX/STi engine/s. It would be a Supra-beater which is why Toyota wouldn’t allow Subaru to offer those engines in this car. Toyota lakeys have said they won’t do it because they want keep the price under $30K, but those are thinly veiled words, a lame excuse. Keeping the price under $30K means they cannot offer a turbo, thus protecting the sorry excuse for a “Supra”. I’m still waiting for an auto journalist to have the stones to report on this matter. To date every one that has spoken to Toyota reps has simply soft balled their interviews and not pressed the issue, flatly accepting the line about price. One, if memory serves, blithely accepted a rep’s comment that the turbo would, “make the car heavier” as rationale for excluding the turbo. Ridiculous. I’m upset over this for a couple of reasons. ONE, 4-5 years ago I was hoping to buy a tasteful update of the MKIV Supra in the MKV but like many I was disappointed to learn it’d be a fugly, auto-only, reskinned BMW. TWO, upon learning of the Supra’s demise, I pined for a new Toyobaru twin with the WRX engine (or the next gen WRX), until it was revealed there’d be no turbo, and the new WRX STILL hasn’t come out. As a result, I ended up with a gem of a used G37S Coupe 6MT that saved me about $20K over a new car purchase and it’ll tide me over while waiting on the new Z, a car that hasn’t disappointed in any meaningful way. Loving my current ride, I can “suffer” while waiting it out for a Nismo Z. All that said, I’m as disappointed in auto journalists as I am in Toyota. Nissan had better be working on that Z or I’ll have another long comment to write next year.
 

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I can't believe this is a 4 page thread. They're not even in the same class in my mind. The only similarities are 2 door, RWD and manual, might as well throw in a 992 911, or maybe an Aston Martin Vantage for comparison.
 

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As good as this car is, it could be truly great - legendary even - if it were given an optional WRX/STi engine/s. It would be a Supra-beater which is why Toyota wouldn’t allow Subaru to offer those engines in this car. Toyota lakeys have said they won’t do it because they want keep the price under $30K, but those are thinly veiled words, a lame excuse. Keeping the price under $30K means they cannot offer a turbo, thus protecting the sorry excuse for a “Supra”. I’m still waiting for an auto journalist to have the stones to report on this matter. To date every one that has spoken to Toyota reps has simply soft balled their interviews and not pressed the issue, flatly accepting the line about price. One, if memory serves, blithely accepted a rep’s comment that the turbo would, “make the car heavier” as rationale for excluding the turbo. Ridiculous. I’m upset over this for a couple of reasons. ONE, 4-5 years ago I was hoping to buy a tasteful update of the MKIV Supra in the MKV but like many I was disappointed to learn it’d be a fugly, auto-only, reskinned BMW. TWO, upon learning of the Supra’s demise, I pined for a new Toyobaru twin with the WRX engine (or the next gen WRX), until it was revealed there’d be no turbo, and the new WRX STILL hasn’t come out. As a result, I ended up with a gem of a used G37S Coupe 6MT that saved me about $20K over a new car purchase and it’ll tide me over while waiting on the new Z, a car that hasn’t disappointed in any meaningful way. Loving my current ride, I can “suffer” while waiting it out for a Nismo Z. All that said, I’m as disappointed in auto journalists as I am in Toyota. Nissan had better be working on that Z or I’ll have another long comment to write next year.
On the flip side I'm sure Subaru wouldn't want a BRZ with a STI engine either so they can keep the WRX STI at top of their lineup as the flagship.
 

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On the flip side I'm sure Subaru wouldn't want a BRZ with a STI engine either so they can keep the WRX STI at top of their lineup as the flagship.
I disagree there (and I’ll focus more on the Z at the end of this post). You don’t see a ton of cross-shopping between BRZ and WRX/STi and it’s not just because of the the engine differences. A sedan is a practical, all-purpose vehicle that can be one’s only car - even for a family of four - whereas a two-seat sports car cannot (except in a 1-2 person household). I have no data to back this up but I’d guess there’d be little cannibalism (not none, just a little) between the Subarus because of the sedan/coupe divide. What I AM sure of is that turbo BRZ’s of either stripe would steal sales in varying degrees (price appropriate) from Supra, Volkswagen GTI/R, Honda CTR (and upcoming Si), Mustang, Camaro, Hyundai Veloster, Miata, Kia Stinger, all manner of BMW’s, Audis, Mercedes, plus our own Nissan Z. Then there are those with a $35K-$50K budget for a used sports car, some of whom would cross shop a BRZ turbo. Of course, one needing an automatic would be limited to a BRZ turbo with the CVT. Again, all of this is kinda of a massive (but fun to discuss) moot point (as Marley stated earlier) as the only Toyobarus getting turbos get them from the aftermarket. Getting back to the Z, I’d be sorely tempted by ANY Toyobaru turbo, particularly one with STi motivation, and there are many who WANT a Z but are turned off by the looks and other factors that would make the turbo twins that much more appealing. Beyond that, the approximately $40K base Z is lacking several desirable options (carbon fiber driveshaft, lightweight wheels, etc) unavailable in the Sport which will drive a lot more sales than people realize to the costlier Performance model which would, again, hypothetically, make a BRZ turbo and other sub-$40K cars that much more attractive.
 

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I disagree there (and I’ll focus more on the Z at the end of this post). You don’t see a ton of cross-shopping between BRZ and WRX/STi and it’s not just because of the the engine differences. A sedan is a practical, all-purpose vehicle that can be one’s only car - even for a family of four - whereas a two-seat sports car cannot (except in a 1-2 person household)....
I disagree. A good 85+% of the drivers I see in WRX/STI's are teenagers. I doubt most of them care if they have a sedan, in fact I'd bet they would prefer a sporty looking 2-door coupe. I think the only draw to the WRX/STI over the BRZ (for that demographic) is the engine, especially if a turbo BRZ was cheaper.
 

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I disagree there (and I’ll focus more on the Z at the end of this post). You don’t see a ton of cross-shopping between BRZ and WRX/STi and it’s not just because of the the engine differences. A sedan is a practical, all-purpose vehicle that can be one’s only car - even for a family of four - whereas a two-seat sports car cannot (except in a 1-2 person household). I have no data to back this up but I’d guess there’d be little cannibalism (not none, just a little) between the Subarus because of the sedan/coupe divide. What I AM sure of is that turbo BRZ’s of either stripe would steal sales in varying degrees (price appropriate) from Supra, Volkswagen GTI/R, Honda CTR (and upcoming Si), Mustang, Camaro, Hyundai Veloster, Miata, Kia Stinger, all manner of BMW’s, Audis, Mercedes, plus our own Nissan Z. Then there are those with a $35K-$50K budget for a used sports car, some of whom would cross shop a BRZ turbo. Of course, one needing an automatic would be limited to a BRZ turbo with the CVT. Again, all of this is kinda of a massive (but fun to discuss) moot point (as Marley stated earlier) as the only Toyobarus getting turbos get them from the aftermarket. Getting back to the Z, I’d be sorely tempted by ANY Toyobaru turbo, particularly one with STi motivation, and there are many who WANT a Z but are turned off by the looks and other factors that would make the turbo twins that much more appealing. Beyond that, the approximately $40K base Z is lacking several desirable options (carbon fiber driveshaft, lightweight wheels, etc) unavailable in the Sport which will drive a lot more sales than people realize to the costlier Performance model which would, again, hypothetically, make a BRZ turbo and other sub-$40K cars that much more attractive.
In many regions of NA buyers covet the AWD aspect.

I can't see much cross-shopping either.
 

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I disagree. A good 85+% of the drivers I see in WRX/STI's are teenagers. I doubt most of them care if they have a sedan, in fact I'd bet they would prefer a sporty looking 2-door coupe. I think the only draw to the WRX/STI over the BRZ (for that demographic) is the engine, especially if a turbo BRZ was cheaper.
We can agree to disagree. I do see some teens and early 20’s driving these Subarus, but they represent a lot less than half where I live (Montgomery County, Maryland, a suburb of DC). In fact, of the four Toyobaru twins I’m aware of in my neighborhood, two owners are my age (early 50’s) and one is in his late 30’s and I don’t the fourth guy’s age. Strangely, I don’t see as many WRX’s in my neighborhood - one CVT WRX owned by a woman in her mid-late 30’s and an STi owned by a guy who’s definitely not less than 40. Out of the six of these Subarus in my immediate neighborhood, only one might be a teen/20-something. I also see at least a dozen of these cars a day (in total) out on the road. Having once been in the market for these cars not long ago, I always actively note who’s driving them (my wife thinks I’m nuts for caring), and one thing I’ve found is that the twins and turbo Subarus seem to be mid-life crisis staples in my region as a lot more guys with grey or salt & pepper hair drive them and youngsters seem to comprise the minority of owners. Also, the newer the car, the older the driver (generally) with the older models making up the bulk of the younger drivers. That’s not to say there aren’t some high school & college kids with mommy & daddy money driving new WRX/STi’s around (I see them every day, but in my region they are the minority of owners.

all that said, my experience is anecdotal and means little without seeing real ownership demographic data from Subaru
In many regions of NA buyers covet the AWD aspect.

I can't see much cross-shopping either.
Excellent point! I forgot the AWD vs RWD aspect.
 

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I disagree there (and I’ll focus more on the Z at the end of this post). You don’t see a ton of cross-shopping between BRZ and WRX/STi and it’s not just because of the the engine differences. A sedan is a practical, all-purpose vehicle that can be one’s only car - even for a family of four - whereas a two-seat sports car cannot (except in a 1-2 person household). I have no data to back this up but I’d guess there’d be little cannibalism (not none, just a little) between the Subarus because of the sedan/coupe divide. What I AM sure of is that turbo BRZ’s of either stripe would steal sales in varying degrees (price appropriate) from Supra, Volkswagen GTI/R, Honda CTR (and upcoming Si), Mustang, Camaro, Hyundai Veloster, Miata, Kia Stinger, all manner of BMW’s, Audis, Mercedes, plus our own Nissan Z. Then there are those with a $35K-$50K budget for a used sports car, some of whom would cross shop a BRZ turbo. Of course, one needing an automatic would be limited to a BRZ turbo with the CVT. Again, all of this is kinda of a massive (but fun to discuss) moot point (as Marley stated earlier) as the only Toyobarus getting turbos get them from the aftermarket. Getting back to the Z, I’d be sorely tempted by ANY Toyobaru turbo, particularly one with STi motivation, and there are many who WANT a Z but are turned off by the looks and other factors that would make the turbo twins that much more appealing. Beyond that, the approximately $40K base Z is lacking several desirable options (carbon fiber driveshaft, lightweight wheels, etc) unavailable in the Sport which will drive a lot more sales than people realize to the costlier Performance model which would, again, hypothetically, make a BRZ turbo and other sub-$40K cars that much more attractive.
That does make sense, I'm not against the BRZ getting an STI engine for the record I just think Subaru would be hesitant internally about it.

It'd be intersting if the WRX's engine could fit in the BRZ because one reason they gave for not adding one was that the turbo in the new 2.4L engine the turbo would have to be underneath, which is fine in an SUV but not in a sports car.


Dominick Infante, the head of Subaru's public relations team, told Road & Track that turbocharging the BRZ would have required mounting the engine higher, which would have compromised handling by raising the center of gravity.
 

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That does make sense, I'm not against the BRZ getting an STI engine for the record I just think Subaru would be hesitant internally about it.

It'd be intersting if the WRX's engine could fit in the BRZ because one reason they gave for not adding one was that the turbo in the new 2.4L engine the turbo would have to be underneath, which is fine in an SUV but not in a sports car.


Dominick Infante, the head of Subaru's public relations team, told Road & Track that turbocharging the BRZ would have required mounting the engine higher, which would have compromised handling by raising the center of gravity.
It’s a BS explanation to mask the real reason which was that Toyota wouldn’t let them. Again, this is a moot point but I’m ok continuing the conversation as it’s fun. The BRZ wasn’t designed with the optional turbo in mind but easily could have been for this newest iteration had Toyota ok’d it - which they didn’t because the Supra was already on the slate with a turbo BMW six and a BMW 4cyl turbo before the BRZ redesign was underway. It was simply a matter of protecting the Supra. Sure, BRZ’s weight would go up as would the center or gravity but that’s true of just about ANY car getting a turbo enhancement - equipment adds weight and it has to be optimally located. So what? Beefed up suspension/wheels/tires/brakes would’ve handled the added weight & power, the end result of which would’ve been a still-trackable road rocket that would’ve punched well above its weight. I’d guess 300hp+ (to battle the CTR) from the new WRX engine and maybe 325-350hp from the STi with hypothetical pricing of $37K and $45K, give or take. All this in a model/s that would’ve been FAR better-looking and far better performing than the base Supra while being much lighter and a lot less expensive, more reliable, cheaper to maintain and repair ALONG WITH THE OPTION FOR A STICK. And depending on the STi’s output, this never-gonna-happen BRZ might have nipped the heels of, or perhaps even bettered the performance of the optional BMW six in the Supra. The ONLY way Subaru would ever add a turbo to the BRZ would be if Toyota were to discontinue the Supra, or push it further upmarket with its own in-line six (TT and/or hybridized) to give it the power train (w/OPTIONAL MANUAL TRANSMISSION) it deserves. Imagine a good-looking TT SUPRA, Toyota-designed in-line six w/hybrid assistance and 500hp, a $65K price and 30mpg (all just guesses), leaving TONS of room for turbo BRZ’s and no cannibalization of sales. Both Subaru and Toyota would make more money by selling a LOT more Toyobaru twins and a lot more Supras but it was a MUCH bigger financial risk to go that route than softballing the Supra by slapping fugly bodywork on a BMW.
 

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I'm considering the GR86 vs the new Z quite seriously.
I already have a turbo car (GR Yaris Rallye) so chasing the turbo sounds and torque is not that important to me.
My thinking is that I really want to get a coupe wit a tonne of feel and feedback. GR86 in that regard will be hard to beat.
Other thing is the cost. Most likely in Australia a new GR86 will be $45k drive away.
Price of the new Z is unknown, but if its any more than $65k then Z will really need to be proper epic to sway me.
 

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I'm considering the GR86 vs the new Z quite seriously.
I already have a turbo car (GR Yaris Rallye) so chasing the turbo sounds and torque is not that important to me.
My thinking is that I really want to get a coupe wit a tonne of feel and feedback. GR86 in that regard will be hard to beat.
Other thing is the cost. Most likely in Australia a new GR86 will be $45k drive away.
Price of the new Z is unknown, but if its any more than $65k then Z will really need to be proper epic to sway me.
You’ve basically answered your own question. The Z will demolish a GR86 on almost any track because of its superior power and probable excellent handling. That said, it’s a virtual certainty that a GR86 would be a more precise handler due to its substantially lighter weight, lower center or gravity and it’s track-natured focus. With either car you’re a winner as they’re both going to be great in their own right. Good luck to you.
 

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I'm considering the GR86 vs the new Z quite seriously.
I already have a turbo car (GR Yaris Rallye) so chasing the turbo sounds and torque is not that important to me.
My thinking is that I really want to get a coupe wit a tonne of feel and feedback. GR86 in that regard will be hard to beat.
Other thing is the cost. Most likely in Australia a new GR86 will be $45k drive away.
Price of the new Z is unknown, but if its any more than $65k then Z will really need to be proper epic to sway me.
Another option (and perhaps a lot more fun) would be to outfit an old 240/260/280 Z with modern track equipment to suit your needs of tracking is your intent. If not, nothing beats a modern car for refinement, reliability, technology, etc.. Have at it.
 

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I'm considering the GR86 vs the new Z quite seriously.
I already have a turbo car (GR Yaris Rallye) so chasing the turbo sounds and torque is not that important to me.
My thinking is that I really want to get a coupe wit a tonne of feel and feedback. GR86 in that regard will be hard to beat.
Other thing is the cost. Most likely in Australia a new GR86 will be $45k drive away.
Price of the new Z is unknown, but if its any more than $65k then Z will really need to be proper epic to sway me.
Ugh I wish Toyota sold the GR Yaris over here. I've seen so many videos and articles on it and it seems to be ridiculously fun to drive.
 
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