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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am curious what we all think the Z is going to be capable of, right out of the box, in terms of basic measurable performance. I suspect it's obvious that the current Supra has to be very much in Nissan's sights and, if we assume that the VR30DDTT found in the Q60 Red Sport 400 is to be the heart of the Z35 (at least initially), that should be a rival the Z can conceivably overcome.

VR30DDTT (Red Sport 400)
400 hp @ 6400 RPM
350 lb-ft @ 1600 RPM

B58M30O1 (2021 Supra 3.0)
382 hp @ 6500 RPM
369 lb-ft @ 1800 RPM


Looking at some tests of the Q60 RS400 (RWD), it seems like the performance figures are respectable, if not earth-shattering. The vehicle weighs somewhere in the realm of 3,900 lbs, it should be noted.

0-60: approx 4.5 seconds
1/4 Mile: approx 13 seconds
Braking, 70–0 mph: 163 ft
Top Speed: 155 MPH (estimated, as far as I can tell)


Supra, expectedly, gets the better of it. The Supra also weighs approximately 3,400 lbs.

0-60: approx 3.7 seconds
1/4 Mile: approx 12 seconds
Braking, 70–0 mph: 152 ft
Top Speed: 160 MPH (limited)


I would have to imagine that, assuming we're benchmarking the Supra, the Z35 is in a good position to play in the same ballpark, from a basic performance standpoint. Package this engine, the big brakes from even the current Sport package (much less the GTR kit), and some respectable tires, I wouldn't even doubt that the new Z can best the current Supra. Particularly since the Z should be in the same weight class as the Toyota/BMW product.

At the very least, it shouldn't be embarrassed at a stoplight by one ;)
 

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I think realistic maybe 4.1 0-60 ( from the Automatic) then 12.7 in the 1/4 at maybe 109ish?

this car should weigh about what a 370 does. so to ballpark it go look at the best 370Z numbers and take 2-3 tenths max off for the power bump and other refinements

I doubt it can break that 4 sec 0-60 barrier


but not even a question the very first damn review every car mag will do is vs the Supra head to head
 

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Until the power-to-weight figures are known and calculated, any performance predictions are simply guesses. I wonder if Nissan will be able to optimize the FM platform for weight? How will the development team choose to spend their R&D budget on weight reduction, yet keep construction costs under control? Yes, the Supra and BMW Z4 must be performance targets, but balancing chassis deflection/stiffness, new steel alloy development and weight must be part of why it's taking Nissan so much time to reveal the production Z.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'd say that, if the new Z is still in the 4 second range (particularly with an automatic), Nissan will have failed. To produce a vehicle - a sports car - that is only marginally quicker than its 13-year-old predecessor would be somewhat embarrassing.

Again, the Q60 can reach 60 MPH in 4.4 seconds according to Car and Driver and it weighs almost two tons. Supposing the Z gains a little weight, I'd still place it around 3,400 lbs. If they can't make that engine perform more impressively in a far lighter vehicle, they didn't try very hard, in my opinion.
 

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I think it will gain a bit. for example the GTR when it got its facelift in 2017 gained about 24 pounds mostly from the interior refresh.
 

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With increasing U.S. safety standards, curb weights are sure to rise.

thats a great point and a lot of time the engineering for weight savings is more to try to "break even" with the upward weight trend due to safety / regulations /modernization than anything else. so an incremental gain for a decade newer car would be a success.

most of my experience is from the GTR world but a good example is like i mentioned earlier the 2017+ facelifted GTR NISMO weighs about 24lbs more than the original 2015. the 2020 jumped up in price by another almost $35K and added carbon ceramic brakes carbon fenders roof and hood and the total weight savings over the 2015 is only 18 lbs. so it took a huge amount of expensive parts to undo ( and then some) about 5 years of weight creep just from safety modernization ect. With the proportions of the new Z being similar to the 370 and similar pmaterials used in the car. I think its a win if it stays within 40-50lbs of the 2008 car that came before it. Thats why im saying that your best stock 370z unicorn acceleration times and take 2-3 tenths off that and you are gonna be close to where this car should sit performance wise.
 

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I'd say that, if the new Z is still in the 4 second range (particularly with an automatic), Nissan will have failed. To produce a vehicle - a sports car - that is only marginally quicker than its 13-year-old predecessor would be somewhat embarrassing.

Again, the Q60 can reach 60 MPH in 4.4 seconds according to Car and Driver and it weighs almost two tons. Supposing the Z gains a little weight, I'd still place it around 3,400 lbs. If they can't make that engine perform more impressively in a far lighter vehicle, they didn't try very hard, in my opinion.
For 2WD cars I tend to disregard the 0-60 claims. Oftentimes, the 0-60 performance is equally reliant on chassis dynamics. With the new Z being significantly more powerful (if 400HP minimum is what we get), and the same weight as the 370, I suspect 0-60 times won't be wildly different. I do believe a turbo Z will absolutely get out in front of a 370z with no doubt as to who is winning, but traction will be the issue. I prefer to look at 1/4 mile trap speeds. Much like how a Dodge Challenger Scat Pack Widebody can keep up, if not out-accelerate a Hellcat on the street, the Hellcat will eventually run away from the 392 Scat.

Going by well established stats, the quickest I have ever seen a 370Z 7AT trap in a 1/4 is 108mph. I have consistently seen Q60 RS 7AT do 111mph. Rough rule of thumb is each 1mph at the end of a 1/4 looks like a full car length, roughly. So, a Q60 is 3 cars ahead of a 370Z 7AT at the end of a 1/4. Whilst carrying several hundred pounds more weight.

My older 3.7 7AT Q60 (it's technically a G37, but in 2014 Infiniti got weird with the names) can only get through a 1/4 at 104mph. So, the sister 370Z 7AT is 4 mph faster than it's exact Q60/G37 sister. This should translate well to the new Z as the current Q60, my older Q60 and the 370Z and new Z will all have about the same relative weights for the most part.

If we apply that exact same delta to the new turbo Z, plus account for the extra power, it would be fair to say that the new turbo Z could easily be +5mph faster than the current Q60, if the new Z uses a 7AT. That would put it trapping 116mph, only 1mph behind a BMW Supra. However, if Nissan gives us an amazing automatic trans, we could see even another 1-2mph gain from a better trans. So, it is quite feasible a new turbo Z could run neck-and-neck with a BMW Supra.

But, it doesn't matter to me one bit. I would never cross-shop a BMW with a Japanese car. My current considerations for my money are:
Supercharge my Q60 (this is the cheapest option by a long shot)
2022 BRZ (I know, not a HP monster, but it is a very compelling Japanese RWD coupe)
new TLX Turbo V6
new Turbo Z

And all of the aforementioned choices are with full knowledge that an upper-level AWD Tesla could whoop up on any of those choices. Can easily whoop the snot out of a BMW Supra too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If we apply that exact same delta to the new turbo Z, plus account for the extra power, it would be fair to say that the new turbo Z could easily be +5mph faster than the current Q60, if the new Z uses a 7AT. That would put it trapping 116mph, only 1mph behind a BMW Supra. However, if Nissan gives us an amazing automatic trans, we could see even another 1-2mph gain from a better trans. So, it is quite feasible a new turbo Z could run neck-and-neck with a BMW Supra.
This is an interesting point, and you're probably right that the 0-60 times are generally not the best indicator of a vehicle's true performance capability (since it relies, maybe more than anything, on traction). Having said that, I only really brought it up since it's sort of an accessible way of looking at how a particular car might stack up at road-legal speeds. Seems to me that if the Supra - based on literally every professional test I've seen conducted - runs in the mid-to-high 3s, it can't be that implausible for the Z to do the same, in ideal conditions.

It's all conjecture at this point, anyway, but let's hope that Nissan has seen fit to deliver a viable competitor in the mid-tier sports car market.
 

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It will probably be 3400lbs
0-60 will be in the low 4s.

I don't care at all about 0-60 or 1/4mile as you'd get smoked by a Tesla truck these days.

I want it to be FUN in the way it delivers its power. I hope it pulls hard from a reasonable RPM, has linearity, and revs out. Hopefully they can make it sound like something.
 

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Good points because the Z really isnt a straight-line car and has never really been that competitive with the muscle car alternatives in its similar price point. A trip down tail of the dragon or a run on a tight track or autoX course have been where its the most fun. But with that said the 0-60 1/4 are still somewhat important because for better or for worse, they are lowest common denominator of understanding performance. Still to this day when I read a review of a new car I skip down to look at the times before I even read the article just because im programmed to compare how that benchmark stacks up vs other cars. Not to mention you will always be asked about it for the rest of your life while pumping gas or at a cars and coffee. its just how people understand cars. as not everyone has been on a track or done canyon runs but everyone has floored it at a green light. so that frame of reference will always exist.

but yeah the electric car has really skewed and almost broken these comparisons as this the new mustang GT SUV or even the new hummer will probably dust the Z 0-60
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
These are all excellent points.

It's true that electrification has rendered acceleration times for ICE vehicles largely irrelevant, by comparison. The straight-line performance advantages of EVs are definitely well-documented. That said, I wouldn't personally purchase a vehicle that isn't even competitive within its own class (though you could argue that the Z truly only has one directly analogous competitor, the Supra, but that's an entirely different discussion) nor one that would be embarrassed on an on-ramp by the average vehicle.

Once electrification becomes more commonplace, ICE vehicles will virtually always be on the losing end of these battles but we just aren't there yet, so that doesn't concern me much.
 

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Great points already mentioned and it's true that our minds are benchmarked against a car's 'performance' measures by that 0-60 and 1/4 mile numbers, basically straight line stats. But, in my case when looking at reviews I look more towards track performance which includes not only power output but braking performance and suspension behavior. If they keep the 400Z under 3400 lbs with great brakes and somewhat adjustable camber/caster settings, it could eat lots more higher hp competitors in those conditions even before the aftermarket. This would make a great platform and would be so much more enjoyable to push to the limit. I guess I'm looking for that predictable 'feel' as a whole.
 

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I've never been smoked by a Tesla truck yet!

And the 300Z Twin Turbo will not disappoint, I am sure. Many times the Q50/Q60 cars are derided for almost every aspect of their existence, but heaps of praise is put onto the VR30 for being an excellent engine. I am always hearing of praise for it's ability to pull linearly right up to redline, a trait many modern turbo cars have lost. Here's a great article from 3 days ago, poo-pooing the dynamics of the Q60 but praising the engine: 2021 Infiniti Q60 Red Sport 400 Struggles to Engage Its Pilot

You can bet, with a 6MT and the way that VR30 pulls, it'll put a smile on everyone's face in the 300Z Twin Turbo.

My friend has a Tesla Model 3 dual motor (the fast one) and no doubt it is ridiculous. But, I never, ever have wanted to trade in my VQ37 powered Q60 with Infiniti sports exhaust for such a car. I get out of his Tesla and drive home in my Q60 with the windows down with a much bigger grin on my face hearing that exhaust and all of the imperfect mechanical pieces whirring away.
 

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Anyone think we'll see a NISMO version that offers more performance than on the current gen?
 

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I am very curious to see what the gearing will be - assuming 4th will be 1 to 1 and what the rear gear will be.
 

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I am very curious to see what the gearing will be - assuming 4th will be 1 to 1 and what the rear gear will be.
Wrong assumption- for a six-speed gearbox, fifth is usually 1:1 and sixth remains an overdrive. Nissan won't want to spend millions on recertifying the drivetrain alone.
 
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