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I think at this point, everyone is trying to make an educated guess as possible of how this will shake out. Some are more informed than others, i.e. Steve here who clearly has a working knowledge of how the overall process works, versus random people saying "I heard from someone that x dealership said y" on Facebook. We're all hungry for information, rightfully so, so everyone is trying to latch onto everything and anything.

Tbh, I've been pretty impressed by how buttoned up Nissan has been. Sure, we've had leaks here and there, but for nothing major to be confirmed outside of what they've already shared with us on the Proto site a few days out is impressive. Tried reaching out to two dealerships down here today, and they said they still don't know anything. I remain cautiously optimistic that they'll play it right, i.e. online reservation system that I think I mentioned in another thread. Keep it seamless.
 

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so many variables to this. in normal times the Z isnt historically super super low production car. If everything was semi normal now dealers might get a few here and there at the very first but on into the model year there would probably be plenty if its anything like the 370z numbers( toward the earlier part of its lifecycle at least) when I mean not super low production The car started off for example like 13K in US for the first year then trended downward and dropped under 5K by 2017 then another 1K per year until it ended.not high volume numbers but certainly enough to go around even when the car was brand new

but things are really bizarre in the car world right now and nowhere near normal. chip shortages overall inflation and hesitation over the lingering covid. you put all this together with no idea of how smooth production will go and what type of climate the car will arrive in and its really impossible to know from the outside looking in what dealers will get. More importantly what they will do with their allocated cars when they get them.

The Z by far has one of the emotional and nostalgic attachments to enthusiast of just about any car out there Like corvette or mustang it transcends generations. coming off a less that pleasant new car buying experience with something that doesnt have these qualities.... it got me thinking that emotional connection seems pretty incompatible with how dealers view the car market right now. So if these Z trickle in 2-3 allocations at a time and all these outside forces that are wrecking havoc on the car market and just overall commerce in general.... we could have version of whats going on with the C8 Stingray on our hands. thats an extreme analogy as that is one of the craziest markets ive followed but you get the idea. I dont have enough info to be officially pessimistic yet other than to say a desirable sports car with high name recognition is coming out in a pretty weird and uncertain time when it comes to new car sales and mass dealer shortages
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I totally get it, in today’s world it’s like a sellers market, ADM could be crazy if only small allotments are given initially. I would rather wait to let all the frenzy play out before any ordering of what I want on options color etc.

It is after all only a Nissan mid level sportscar, with hopefully mass produced enough to keep the Z brand going well years from now. The GT-R continues to be the halo car, top notch low volume hybrid whatever Nissan deems best for the future.
 

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I totally get it, in today’s world it’s like a sellers market, ADM could be crazy if only small allotments are given initially. I would rather wait to let all the frenzy play out before any ordering of what I want on options color etc.

It is after all only a Nissan mid level sportscar, with hopefully mass produced enough to keep the Z brand going well years from now. The GT-R continues to be the halo car, top notch low volume hybrid whatever Nissan deems best for the future.

Yeah I follow the market pretty close and hopefully we will have a ballpark date next week when the Z will show up...but If its spring and this winter makes everything worse who knows what that does to the early adopters of the Z. could be rough going. At the same time most financial or commerce outliers like what we are seeing today tend to even themselves out and we could see an easing up. I got know clue. If I was forced to guess I would say we are in this trend maybe through the 2nd quarter of 2022 with a slight dip over the winter

biggest difference between the GTR and Z is the GTR is a bit of a niche car partly because the price partly because it appeals to much narrower buyer who A) has said money to buy it and chooses it over something with more badge prestige ect.

The Z priced under 50K is such a bigger demo. mid level sports car has more of a successful working class vibe to it going for maybe an american muscle/sports car alternative. Of course the production numbers in comparison reflect that


350Z/370z 2005-21 US Sales

Yearsold
200527,278
200624,635
200718,957
200810,337
200913,117
201010,215
20117,328
20127,891
20136,561
20147,199
20157,391
20165,913
20174,614
20183,468
20192,384
20201,955
202134




GTR 2008-21 US Sales

ByYearsold
20081,730
20091,534
2010877
20111,294
20121,255
20131,236
20141,436
20151,105
2016698
2017578
2018538
2019331
2020303
2021100
 

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As for ADM and pricing. Nissan obviously has its hands tied with dealers on setting price. but there is no doubt they have the ability to get these cars in hands of dealers who are more likely not to.

but even that doesnt really apply now as its no longer a handful of mustache twirling greedy dealers doing this. the entire market has inflated. So im not sure what Nissan's incentive would really be to watch over these practices since its industry wide at the moment and every one that comes out of Togichi is going to sale one way or the other anyway
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
ADM will be a serious issue. People are paying ADM on regular vehicles. I imagine ADM on special vehicles like TRX, CTR, Raptor, new Z, etc these days is out of control.

I am skeptical if I'll even land a Z in 2022. I won't pay ADM, it represents everything I loathe about our current situation.
If I can get the options and color I want, I'm willing to go up to $2-$5K above MSRP, that's it, or will wait the waters, no rush really, taking into account the current market and chip situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just don't go into the store and announce that, as the video posted in another thread suggested...
Of course, that won’t be my strategy going in, only if some known facts are solid enough to get the model I want. The video was posted above already.
 

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If I can get the options and color I want, I'm willing to go up to $2-$5K above MSRP, that's it, or will wait the waters, no rush really, taking into account the current market and chip situation.
I feel the same about ADM. I hate it, but wouldn’t mind paying up to $5k above MSRP for exactly what I want. Problem is the market is so crazy right now who knows what everything will be like when the Zs actually hit dealerships and roads.
 

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I feel the same about ADM. I hate it, but wouldn’t mind paying up to $5k above MSRP for exactly what I want. Problem is the market is so crazy right now who knows what everything will be like when the Zs actually hit dealerships and roads.
My opinion is you'd still be better off traveling to get a fair price (maybe MSRP) on a new Z and making a road trip of it. Cost of airplane tickets, time off work, gas, etc may not be a huge savings or a wash compared to ADM, at least as a consumer we can send a message to dealers who are taking advantage of a terrible situation.
 

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My opinion is you'd still be better off traveling to get a fair price (maybe MSRP) on a new Z and making a road trip of it. Cost of airplane tickets, time off work, gas, etc may not be a huge savings or a wash compared to ADM, at least as a consumer we can send a message to dealers who are taking advantage of a terrible situation.
I’ve considered traveling for one if needed. I’ve also asked salesman what they were smoking when they’ve told me ADM on other vehicles I’ve looked into. No problem calling out BS when I see it as excessive upcharge, but I also don’t mind paying for what I want. Hopefully with preorders we won’t run into any issues like that though.
 

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I’ve considered traveling for one if needed. I’ve also asked salesman what they were smoking when they’ve told me ADM on other vehicles I’ve looked into. No problem calling out BS when I see it as excessive upcharge, but I also don’t mind paying for what I want. Hopefully with preorders we won’t run into any issues like that though.
It's crazy that Hyundais and Kias are getting ADM!

We'll have to see about pre-orders, I'd probably buy into that. I know that Ford allowed people to buy the new Bronco at basically MSRP, which any Broncos at retail will have massive ADMs. Too bad Ford can't deliver the Broncos. The Bronco pre-orders are arranged through Ford. I don't know that Nissan has ever offered such a service? You can't trust a dealer, you may think it's a "pre-order" if you make a deal with a dealer, but often times when you go to finalize the deal the dealer will put $10K ADM on at last minute and give 2 effs if it hurts your feelings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
My opinion is you'd still be better off traveling to get a fair price (maybe MSRP) on a new Z and making a road trip of it. Cost of airplane tickets, time off work, gas, etc may not be a huge savings or a wash compared to ADM, at least as a consumer we can send a message to dealers who are taking advantage of a terrible situation.
I figured that any ADM <$5K or travel costs are OK in the long run if you plan on keeping the Z for a while, will pay for itself in no time. Just trying to secure the trim, color, and options I want before committing. If dealers won't honor that I can wait. No way I'll make a deposit and delivery sight unseen. Heck we don't even know how this Z performs as a package, could be a crap shoot right now.
 

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I bought my wife a new 2020 Toyota back in Dec 2019.
A big issue we ran into is many of the Toyota dealers in our area (say 50 mile radius) are actually owned by the same conglomerate, and it's not obvious at first. We went to several dealers who all treated us the same (poorly) and I had a hunch they were all using the same computer system. I looked up who owns those dealerships and in fact they were all owned by the same company. So, when we visited the first dealer, they entered our info and deal into their internal computer system, and when we went across town to try and get a better deal, they oddly offered us the same deal and basically weren't willing to budge.
We got lucky and found a Toyota dealer not associated with that conglomerate and saved nearly 20% on her car.

I haven't checked if all Nissan dealers in my area are the same, but when you try to get a deal, always check if the dealers you visit are owned by the same conglomerate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I’ll still visit the dealer I know, good relationship with so far even though it’s a smaller one in my area. There is a huge one not too far away, that’s my backup. Dealers can work amongst themselves if they want to make a sale, still hoping for the best, just got to be serious on your buy, have $$ or financing ready.

I think Auto Nation USA is one of the conglomerates.
 

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...just got to be serious on your buy, have $$ or financing ready.
Good advice. Make application at a local credit union you can join. Lower rates, more personal service. Most larger credit unions in the area have a financial relationship with local dealers which allows you to do all your paperwork at the dealer. However, it's rare, but some CU's allow dealer to raise their "buy rate" by as much as two percent.

By becoming pre-approved, you can walk in with confidence with a preset rate.


 
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