[kbl911]

Since it's been brought up by myself as well as others, I figured I'd create a thread to address our thoughts on the initial trim offerings for the lovely new Z and how we think it will shake out both short term and long term.

Here's my take, at least from what we currently know:

By offering only Sport (Base, de-contented) and Performance (fully-loaded) trims, Nissan is initially forcing buyers into a tough spot (particularly if that the rumors of a $40K price are accurate):

A) Buy the new Z at a reasonable price, get a beautiful car without any of the performance-enhancing add-ons that would make it truly competitive with the 3.0L Supra

or

B) Buy the new Z in fully-loaded form and get a "Technology & Convenience Package" in combination with the go-fast upgrades associated with a "Sport/Performance Package" but undercut the affordability of the Z (a large part of its mission statement) significantly

That binary choice doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me given that it drives up the price of entry to get something as fundamental as a limited slip differential and decent brakes on your 400HP sports car.

What do we think? Is this maybe just temporary? Is it even a smart strategy?

 

[Wiggle Herf]

Had the sport trim come standard with the LSD and marginally better brakes, it would have been an instant buy. At the speculated base price Nissan is expecting their customers to compromise for an engine-swapped base Z34.

In the performance spec with the rumored price, Nissan will enter extremely competitive territory where this car simply won't stack up against more modern, fast, and sport tuned packages from other manufacturers.

Had we more choice from the available options to introduce an additional spec that sat between the two, I think the new Z would have captured an audience that the two presented trims will fail to.

 

[MCN1SMO]

I think the terminology of sport and performance is kind of confusing. As to a casual on looker both words have a similar meaning. Sport being the base trim maybe should just have been called "Z"

Sport in itself sounds like a higher trim than a base. Like hey I'm opting for the the sport version. It could have had "performance" adding features and then I could have seen a technology package optional.

I think Nissan did this 2 tier strategy as it was the only way to get the base Z at the 40k mark. I think that entry level figure was important to hit for marketing as a value sports car.

The performance adds a ton of pricey stuff and it's just got to be near 50k as it's a performance and tech package combined. I can't see it being less than 47-48k which is the price of the outgoing 370 NISMO

 

[kbl911]

The performance adds a ton of pricey stuff and it's just got to be near 50k as it's a performance and tech package combined. I can't see it being less than 47-48k which is the price of the outgoing 370 NISMO

Exactly what I was thinking, as well. It's going to be up there in price.

Hopefully, this is only a temporary trim structure and the lineup/options will get much more granular in the near future following the initial release. I would just hate for Nissan to turn away a large number of buyers because they dangled a low-spec model that people don't especially want simply to achieve the purpose of being able to market the Z as being "affordable" when closer examination reveals that it may not be quite so.

 

[DrSeckzytime]

Yeah as discussed they know they're basically forcing enthusiasts to step into the "Performance" trim as it contains the usual necessary items like LSD, bigger brakes, etc. And it's combined with leather and spoilers. Thus more profit.

The "Sport" aka base is their price point car to say you get this starting at this ultra low price, but it's missing critical hardware. Only tuner shops and YouTubers will go for that most likely, or customers who don't do their homework.

The amount of stuff in that Performance trim, if the sport is starting around $40k, is going to drive its price up to just under, or above $50k. At that point it is up against cars with BMW quality interiors and levels of finish/refinement. It's not worth that price. Its a shame they didn't hit the rumored marks. Base $35k, sport +$5000, and touring +5000, which one would assume a ST package bundle would give you a slight savings.

I think Nissan saw the hype, and are trying to cash in, they are a business after all. But they are making some big mistakes.

$45k for performance would've been acceptable. This car is going to be slower than it's competition, an ancient chassis, probably heavier, with not the same quality and finish, but it's going to get priced up there just undercutting a 3.0 Supra by $1-2k tops likely.

And then there's the inevitable ADM that these dealerships will no doubt employ, and I doubt Nissan will do anything to correct.

Heartbreaking that Toyota and now perhaps Nissan is going to miss the mark on what could be the last of their kind cars. Waiting on Subaru to inevitably screw up the STI at this rate...

 

[kbl911]

Yeah as discussed they know they're basically forcing enthusiasts to step into the "Performance" trim as it contains the usual necessary items like LSD, bigger brakes, etc. And it's combined with leather and spoilers. Thus more profit.

The "Sport" aka base is their price point car to say you get this starting at this ultra low price, but it's missing critical hardware. Only tuner shops and YouTubers will go for that most likely, or customers who don't do their homework.

The amount of stuff in that Performance trim, if the sport is starting around $40k, is going to drive its price up to just under, or above $50k. At that point it is up against cars with BMW quality interiors and levels of finish/refinement. It's not worth that price. Its a shame they didn't hit the rumored marks. Base $35k, sport +$5000, and touring +5000, which one would assume a ST package bundle would give you a slight savings.

I think Nissan saw the hype, and are trying to cash in, they are a business after all. But they are making some big mistakes.

$45k for performance would've been acceptable. This car is going to be slower than it's competition, an ancient chassis, probably heavier, with not the same quality and finish, but it's going to get priced up there just undercutting a 3.0 Supra by $1-2k tops likely.

And then there's the inevitable ADM that these dealerships will no doubt employ, and I doubt Nissan will do anything to correct.

Heartbreaking that Toyota and now perhaps Nissan is going to miss the mark on what could be the last of their kind cars. Waiting on Subaru to inevitably screw up the STI at this rate...

Totally, it just seems like such miscalculation on Nissan's part, particularly because the car looks like an ABSOLUTE winner if marketed at the right price point. It really needed to come in $6K+ less expensive than the 3.0L Supra in this "Performance" spec (fully-loaded, basically) in order to make its strongest business case.

 

[Devon]

My bet is the Performance trim will come in several K less than the 3L Supra, they can't go head to head with a BMW on price with what is essentially a reworked 370Z and they know it.

 

[takemorepills]

Waiting on Subaru to inevitably screw up the STI at this rate...

A significant number of WRX fans already unhappy that Subaru persists with the sedan.

 

[takemorepills]

I think all y'all are wrong.
I clearly remember looking at 300ZX Twin Turbo in 1995 and they were $45k back then. I wanted one so bad, but I was just a teenager could barely afford a Sentra.
Fast forward a quarter century, I have a second chance to get a Twin Turbo Z for nearly the same price as what I saw back then.

Notice in the Z reveal yesterday they focused on the Z enthusiast? Not the metrics of what car it can beat?

Those of you cross-shopping against the overall market are not the primary customer Nissan is going for, sure some people may just walk in off the street never having any past Z experience, but it's true the Z can't dominate on metrics alone. So maybe y'all be better served by other cars, maybe a Tesla?

I think Nissan will meet the sales goals they hope for with this car and it will be successful for them.

 

[DrSeckzytime]

A significant number of WRX fans already unhappy that Subaru persists with the sedan.

Subaru sold more WRXs than ever last gen, which didn't have a hatch/wagon.

I think all y'all are wrong.
I clearly remember looking at 300ZX Twin Turbo in 1995 and they were $45k back then. I wanted one so bad, but I was just a teenager could barely afford a Sentra.
Fast forward a quarter century, I have a second chance to get a Twin Turbo Z for nearly the same price as what I saw back then.

Notice in the Z reveal yesterday they focused on the Z enthusiast? Not the metrics of what car it can beat?

Those of you cross-shopping against the overall market are not the primary customer Nissan is going for, sure some people may just walk in off the street never having any past Z experience, but it's true the Z can't dominate on metrics alone. So maybe y'all be better served by other cars, maybe a Tesla?

I think Nissan will meet the sales goals they hope for with this car and it will be successful for them.

So you're saying Nissan is hoping nostalgia will carry their asking price when compared to faster, lighter, better interior, better finished direct competitors? Well, I mean I hope they sell gangbusters so we see more of these and that they continue making them as long as possible. But I don't think it's going to work beyond year one in this market environment and economy.

And no, I'm an enthusiast, especially of 90s Japanese cars as those were my school days. I wanted to get a car like this before all we're stuck with are fast but soulless EV machines to me. So no, a Tesla will not better serve this enthusiast.

 

[takemorepills]

So you're saying Nissan is hoping nostalgia will carry their asking price when compared to faster, lighter, better interior, better finished direct competitors?

Yup, did you see the reveal? It was very clear who they are targeting.

 

[kbl911]

Yup, did you see the reveal? It was very clear who they are targeting.

Yeah, but that's not what he's arguing. It seems to me that the argument is this either a) is only aimed at a group that is too narrow to have profitability as even a plausible outcome or b) the pricing-to-performance ratio will not make a strong enough business case for the car beyond its initial offering.

I, too, worry that things may die down after the first volley if this is the trim/package structure Nissan sticks with. I think there need to be other packages in between these two so that there isn't such a wide potential price gap between the two.

 

[takemorepills]

Yeah, but that's not what he's arguing. It seems to me that the argument is this either a) is only aimed at a group that is too narrow to have profitability as even a plausible outcome or b) the pricing-to-performance ratio will not make a strong enough business case for the car beyond its initial offering.

I, too, worry that things may die down after the first volley if thiis the trim/package structure Nissan sticks with. I think there need to be other packages in between these two so that there isn't such a wide potential price gap between the two.

These arguments can be made ad nauseam about ANY vehicle. No vehicle on the market makes everyone happy.
No vehicle on the market has a clear advantage in price/value than any of it's peers, especially if you consider consumer bias.

Wanna talk wide pricing gaps? Many normal vehicles these days have an upper-top trim that's between 50-90% higher than the base.
Full size trucks are even worse.

 

[Wiggle Herf]

These arguments can be made ad nauseam about ANY vehicle. No vehicle on the market makes everyone happy.
No vehicle on the market has a clear advantage in price/value than any of it's peers, especially if you consider consumer bias.

Wanna talk wide pricing gaps? Many normal vehicles these days have an upper-top trim that's between 50-90% higher than the base.
Full size trucks are even worse.

Again, it's not the potential price gap. It's the lack of available trim levels in-between forcing customers to the relatively better option.

Sure you can get an F-150 for $30k, or go all the way to $80k for certain trims. But, Ford has intelligently filled their showroom with trims at every level to satisfy their customers. Nissan has not in this case.

 

[MCN1SMO]

Exactly what I was thinking, as well. It's going to be up there in price.

Hopefully, this is only a temporary trim structure and the lineup/options will get much more granular in the near future following the initial release. I would just hate for Nissan to turn away a large number of buyers because they dangled a low-spec model that people don't especially want simply to achieve the purpose of being able to market the Z as being "affordable" when closer examination reveals that it may not be quite so.

thats definitely one way to look at. The strategy from the outside looking in might seem a little over simplified as there is no middle ground between a base and loaded car.

But I also think if you are using the Supra as the benchmark competitor..... Nissan is giving you a 40K 400hp car to be seen as an obtainable value sports car. ( the press release even emphasizes how the Z has always been right there between the aspirational and obtainable) but then the "real" Z Performance is how the car is intended to be a comparable with the supra and still will probably undercut that car in price and boast more HP ect....but you are going to be closer to the supra in price than you may have anticipated. So looking at it like that context I dont really have a problem with it. I view the performance as the way the Z is supposed to be and if you are in the market for a 55K+ supra then Nissan might say hey we have an almost 50K car that stacks up right with that car or even bests it. reviews and road tests will tell

now with that said Ive been going through all the materials today and I am surprised on what all is missing or different from the "lesser" sports spec. for instance the paddle shifters are even different on the performance along with the exhaust tips and even the pedals. I feel like the Sport if it would have had a LSD there would be less a feeling of it being low spec and a value instead as some people could care less about one inch larger NAV screen or might be intending to go aftermarket wheels anyway ect. the lack of the LSD on a sport model is probably the one misstep I see from this entire roll out so far as you kind of need it.

 

[MCN1SMO]

If I was in product planning I would have done 1 more trim so like Pure Sports Performance

I would have taken the Sports trim as we know it and just call that the "Z" or call it Pure spec or something like that 40K

Then I would have added the LSD and possibly even the 19" wheels/tires for the Sports spec 43K ( you know things that add to the Sports driving aspect of the car)

Then finally I would have had the top of the line Performance with the larger Nav sports exhaust and whatever else included. 47K

 

[yanks1]

i also fear price of the Performance model. I for one be happy with Sport model if a Techn pkg be separate option. I want those goodies more so than the perf. items like some of you. Oh well, lets see what happens at Go Live time

 

[kbl911]

i also fear price of the Performance model. I for one be happy with Sport model if a Techn pkg be separate option. I want those goodies more so than the perf. items like some of you. Oh well, lets see what happens at Go Live time

Yep, we'll see! I hope Nissan has some tricks up their sleeve and these initial trims are just intended to whet our collective appetites

 

[S30R32]

I'm with most of you here, with just the limited two trims and Nissan sort of forcing most to up the game to spend more $$ for the Performance is likely packaging for most profits. This is what's happening with the SUV/CUV world. Maybe down the road more flexible options/trims will be available but for now they're gauging how successful the Z will be at initial offering. Many here to spend close to $50K or over will be hard to swallow but in the end that will happen.

Again, at least LSD, big brakes, wheels, should be optioned for the Sport. This would be great to keep weight down, i.e. no Tech pieces like larger screen nav, power seats, etc.

 

[kbl911]

Again, at least LSD, big brakes, wheels, should be optioned for the Sport. This would be great to keep weight down, i.e. no Tech pieces like larger screen nav, power seats, etc.

That's all I ask! Just give me what essentially was the Z34 "Sport" trim - even at added cost - as a standalone option 🤟