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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Now that specific details regarding the new Z have been released and the automotive talking heads have been able to drive the Z and even compare it to other cars, I'm somewhat disappointed with the 2023 Z. I'm interested to hear what others think about the 2023 Z based on what we know so far.

Some background. I've owned several Zs over the years including most recently a 2003 350Z, which I purchased new and I still own, and a 370Z which I don't still own. I've also owned other sports cars since the mid 2000s including a C6 Corvette, a BMW and currently a Camaro SS 1LE, all but one of which had manual transmissions. My 350Z is probably my favorite car I've ever owned. It never ceases to bring a smile to my face when I drive it. It also probably has $20k worth of mods over the time I've owned it.

While I love the exterior styling of the 2023 Z as well as the twin turbo V6, I'm somewhat disappointed that the car isn't all new, but instead a significantly revised 370Z. I know that Nissan was trying to cut costs in order to keep the car's price from being too high. After all it had to be competitive in the market. However, the pricing is also a disappointment to me. Not the price of the base Z. It's pricing is pretty good, except it lacks many of the features sports car owners want. The Performance being $10k more than the base Z and over $50k total is what disappoints me the most. I was hoping the Performance would be closer to $45k, especially since much of the car, like the chassis, the brakes, most of the suspension and the manual transmission, is essentially carry over. It's not quite the bargain sports car it used to be. And the performance doesn't really match its current competition either. The 3.0 (Z)Supra is clearly better in every performance category, although I'm not a fan of its styling. BMW engines are notoriously underrated so I suspect it is actually more powerful than the Z. And the Supra is finally going to be available with a manual for the 2023 model year.

My other current car, a 2022 Camaro SS 1LE 6M is also a significantly better performing car than the 2023 Z and it cost right at $46k. In my opinion its the best performance value on the market right now. Of course GM has an economy of scale advantage over Nissan when it comes to building performance cars, so it can build them cheaper. And before you knock the 1LE as an American muscle car, if you don't know, you should research what it is. It's basically a car you can take from the showroom floor straight to your local racetrack (not dragstrip) without any modifications. It's that good.

I don't want to come across that I'm not a Z fan. I'm a huge Z fan. Just disappointed in what the new Z is. This time last year I was all set to order the 2023 Z when it came out. But due to delays in the release of the car I decided to pursue another car that I had been looking at off and on since 2019, the 1LE. In hindsight I'm glad I did. As the more I found out about the new Z the more disappointed I became. Now, I'm thinking about waiting for the Nismo Z. But at the same time I'm wondering how much it will cost. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have the new Z, but I'm not willing to pay in excess of $50k for it or the inevitable dealer mark ups to get one of the first year models.
 

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I was actually pleasantly surprised by how well the media likes the new car. I wasn't expecting much because I know Nissan has $$ issues and this is a low volume car within their line-up. Based on the price tag of developing a new model from scratch, I'm impressed with what the engineers were able to do with what they had to work with. At the end of the day, I guess we have to ask ourselves whether would we'd prefer a "new" model developed by Nissan, or do what Toyota did with the Supra.

By the way, love the SS 1LE. I just wish the Camaro had better visibility! I still love the sounds of a sweet V8.
 

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I'm disappointed that the base Z doesn't come with an LSD, and disappointed that we don't have as many trims as Japan does. The $10k price jump between the two trims is absurd, it's crazy to think that someone looking to buy a Z would have to make a $10k decision on which trim to consider, there should definitely be something in between.
I'm fine with the use of the old chassis and upgrading it from there. I'm super happy with the new exterior look, the amazing interior, and the huge amount of exterior colors available (and they all look nice).
I think 100% the biggest problem is the price of the Z, everyone keeps comparing it to a Supra, but compared to a Mustang, M240, Camaro, and even a Q60; it's not that great of a deal/performer.
There's so many lower price point sports cars that are below the base Z that have LSD's as well.

I'm looking to get the Performance trim in red, and I'm trying really hard not to think of the fact that it will be an almost $54k Nissan, when a Supra is very little more, and the other vehicles mentioned above are way under.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was actually pleasantly surprised by how well the media likes the new car. I wasn't expecting much because I know Nissan has $$ issues and this is a low volume car within their line-up. Based on the price tag of developing a new model from scratch, I'm impressed with what the engineers were able to do with what they had to work with. At the end of the day, I guess we have to ask ourselves whether would we'd prefer a "new" model developed by Nissan, or do what Toyota did with the Supra.

By the way, love the SS 1LE. I just wish the Camaro had better visibility! I still love the sounds of a sweet V8.
Yes, Nissan is at a disadvantage in trying to produce a low volume car compared to other companies. And I don't dislike the new Z, it just isn't all I hoped it would be.

The visibility in the Camaro isn't as bad as people think. It could be better, but it's not much worse than the visibility in my 350Z. What was harder for me to adjust to was the width of the car. It feels much wider than the 350Z, although its not all that much wider. And the 1LE has so much performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm disappointed that the base Z doesn't come with an LSD, and disappointed that we don't have as many trims as Japan does. The $10k price jump between the two trims is absurd, it's crazy to think that someone looking to buy a Z would have to make a $10k decision on which trim to consider, there should definitely be something in between.
I'm fine with the use of the old chassis and upgrading it from there. I'm super happy with the new exterior look, the amazing interior, and the huge amount of exterior colors available (and they all look nice).
I think 100% the biggest problem is the price of the Z, everyone keeps comparing it to a Supra, but compared to a Mustang, M240, Camaro, and even a Q60; it's not that great of a deal/performer.
There's so many lower price point sports cars that are below the base Z that have LSD's as well.

I'm looking to get the Performance trim in red, and I'm trying really hard not to think of the fact that it will be an almost $54k Nissan, when a Supra is very little more, and the other vehicles mentioned above are way under.
I agree that the new Z is not a great deal in terms of overall value and performance. As you mentioned there are lots of other similar performing cars with lower price points. A certain price point demands a certain level of performance in a sports car.
 

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For me, for what it is (mostly carry over and quite heavy at 1600kg), the price is way too high.
Nismo 370Z was 68k, yet now the base Z we get in Oz is basically 80k.
I'm struggling to see the appeal, and reviews are not setting the world on fire, they are quite muted, meek reviews.
 

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I have become less excited for the Z for two reasons. The 10K price jump to performance and the delays from spring to late summer/fall. I went from “definitely getting one” to now, not sure if I’ll even be able to get my hands on one.
 

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I have become less excited for the Z for two reasons. The 10K price jump to performance and the delays from spring to late summer/fall. I went from “definitely getting one” to now, not sure if I’ll even be able to get my hands on one.
Yeah honestly the delays have been getting to me as well =/
 

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Performance price point has me considering a Mustang GT or used sports car instead.

Base (sport) takes away too much for me (no leather, no bose, no synchro rev).

No ability to option anything or select trims that are in the middle are pushing me out. I don't really want to pay 55k for a Z which is basically the cheapest you are going to get the performance for a while.

Great car. I love what they've done with what they were given to work with.
 

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The way I see it. I’m wasting tens of thousands of dollars anyway. This isn’t a minivan to transport my kids, it’s a luxury. We don’t need this car, we want it. I like the way it looks and it seems like it’s going to be a lot faster and more fun to drive than my daily. Who cares about the price point. Go spend less on something different or more on something better. 99% of us haven’t even sat in one and we’re already “disappointed”.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The way I see it. I’m wasting tens of thousands of dollars anyway. This isn’t a minivan to transport my kids, it’s a luxury. We don’t need this car, we want it. I like the way it looks and it seems like it’s going to be a lot faster and more fun to drive than my daily. Who cares about the price point. Go spend less on something different or more on something better. 99% of us haven’t even sat in one and we’re already “disappointed”.
Most people do care about price point, especially in a luxury item or toy. If I didn't care about price point I'd buy a 911 GT3 or a C8 Z06, but those aren't in my price range. Price vs value does matter to most folks. And that's where I'm the most disappointed in the new Z. Yes, most of us haven't sat in the new Z. But I've read enough about it and seen enough reviews of it to make a pretty educated overall evaluation of the car. And I've owned and sat in a 370Z. In fact the new Z's seats look almost identical to the 370Z seats. Is the new Z better than the 370Z? Sure it is. Is it better than it's competition? Probably not. Doesn't mean it's not a good car. It just may be priced too high for most people given similar vehicle options available in the marketplace.
 

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Yes, Nissan is at a disadvantage in trying to produce a low volume car compared to other companies. And I don't dislike the new Z, it just isn't all I hoped it would be.

The visibility in the Camaro isn't as bad as people think. It could be better, but it's not much worse than the visibility in my 350Z. What was harder for me to adjust to was the width of the car. It feels much wider than the 350Z, although its not all that much wider. And the 1LE has so much performance.
I love the Camaro and actually like the driving position much better than the current Mustang. I've had a lot of Mustangs in the past and occasionally drive my daughter's 2017 Ecoboost. The Mustang feels bigger than it is. I was at a Chevy dealer at the end of 2015 and wanted a ZL1. I sat in the one they had on the showroom floor and just couldn't get used to the visibility. I'm an ex-military guy that spent way too much time in armored personnel carriers. I bought a Chevy SS Sedan instead with the LS3 and manual transmission. The SS was essentially a 4 door Camaro. I'd still like a Camaro but it will have to be a convertible for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I love the Camaro and actually like the driving position much better than the current Mustang. I've had a lot of Mustangs in the past and occasionally drive my daughter's 2017 Ecoboost. The Mustang feels bigger than it is. I was at a Chevy dealer at the end of 2015 and wanted a ZL1. I sat in the one they had on the showroom floor and just couldn't get used to the visibility. I'm an ex-military guy that spent way too much time in armored personnel carriers. I bought a Chevy SS Sedan instead with the LS3 and manual transmission. The SS was essentially a 4 door Camaro. I'd still like a Camaro but it will have to be a convertible for me.
Overall the Camaro is a better car than the Mustang. GM's Alpha platform, which underpins the Camaro, is one of the best handling platforms on the market. It will be interesting to see how the new Mustang platform handles in comparison when it comes out later this year. The Chevy SS is an awesome 4 door car. Too bad it just wasn't that popular with anyone, but enthusiasts when it was on the market.
 

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Now that specific details regarding the new Z have been released and the automotive talking heads have been able to drive the Z and even compare it to other cars, I'm somewhat disappointed with the 2023 Z. I'm interested to hear what others think about the 2023 Z based on what we know so far.

Some background. I've owned several Zs over the years including most recently a 2003 350Z, which I purchased new and I still own, and a 370Z which I don't still own. I've also owned other sports cars since the mid 2000s including a C6 Corvette, a BMW and currently a Camaro SS 1LE, all but one of which had manual transmissions. My 350Z is probably my favorite car I've ever owned. It never ceases to bring a smile to my face when I drive it. It also probably has $20k worth of mods over the time I've owned it.

While I love the exterior styling of the 2023 Z as well as the twin turbo V6, I'm somewhat disappointed that the car isn't all new, but instead a significantly revised 370Z. I know that Nissan was trying to cut costs in order to keep the car's price from being too high. After all it had to be competitive in the market. However, the pricing is also a disappointment to me. Not the price of the base Z. It's pricing is pretty good, except it lacks many of the features sports car owners want. The Performance being $10k more than the base Z and over $50k total is what disappoints me the most. I was hoping the Performance would be closer to $45k, especially since much of the car, like the chassis, the brakes, most of the suspension and the manual transmission, is essentially carry over. It's not quite the bargain sports car it used to be. And the performance doesn't really match its current competition either. The 3.0 (Z)Supra is clearly better in every performance category, although I'm not a fan of its styling. BMW engines are notoriously underrated so I suspect it is actually more powerful than the Z. And the Supra is finally going to be available with a manual for the 2023 model year.

My other current car, a 2022 Camaro SS 1LE 6M is also a significantly better performing car than the 2023 Z and it cost right at $46k. In my opinion its the best performance value on the market right now. Of course GM has an economy of scale advantage over Nissan when it comes to building performance cars, so it can build them cheaper. And before you knock the 1LE as an American muscle car, if you don't know, you should research what it is. It's basically a car you can take from the showroom floor straight to your local racetrack (not dragstrip) without any modifications. It's that good.

I don't want to come across that I'm not a Z fan. I'm a huge Z fan. Just disappointed in what the new Z is. This time last year I was all set to order the 2023 Z when it came out. But due to delays in the release of the car I decided to pursue another car that I had been looking at off and on since 2019, the 1LE. In hindsight I'm glad I did. As the more I found out about the new Z the more disappointed I became. Now, I'm thinking about waiting for the Nismo Z. But at the same time I'm wondering how much it will cost. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have the new Z, but I'm not willing to pay in excess of $50k for it or the inevitable dealer mark ups to get one of the first year models.
Which car is the one you've been looking at since 2019?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The SS 1LE. Might have even been since late in 2018. I actually test drove two of them over a six month period, but didn't pull the trigger on either of them. Glad I waited as Chevy did a refresh on the Carmaro.in 2019 and again in 2020 that changed the front fascia and the rear fascia.
 

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Most people do care about price point, especially in a luxury item or toy. If I didn't care about price point I'd buy a 911 GT3 or a C8 Z06, but those aren't in my price range. Price vs value does matter to most folks. And that's where I'm the most disappointed in the new Z. Yes, most of us haven't sat in the new Z. But I've read enough about it and seen enough reviews of it to make a pretty educated overall evaluation of the car. And I've owned and sat in a 370Z. In fact the new Z's seats look almost identical to the 370Z seats. Is the new Z better than the 370Z? Sure it is. Is it better than it's competition? Probably not. Doesn't mean it's not a good car. It just may be priced too high for most people given similar vehicle options available in the marketplace.
This a good distillation. I like the Zed, and planned to replace my 370 with one, but not at over $50,000. We've officially entered "pound sand" territory, there. Offering both of the middle spec variants that the JDM market is receiving would be a terrific start - my creeping fear, however, is that by the time those are offered in the North American market, the base price of entry (MSRP-wise) will have slid upward and even the mid tier versions will be approaching $50k. And that's predicated on the automotive landscape, in general, fully stabilizing. Unlikely. :(
 

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I’m a bit disappointed as well.

The only thing I really really want in the performance trim is the locking differential. It’s a lot of dough for that.

I’m also a bit disappointed regarding the transmissions. Those that like to row their own gears usually get a price break for picking a manual transmission. Not in this case. Also, the disparity between the mileage between the two transmissions is pretty large. I realize that the automatics in general these days get better gas mileage, but the gap is huge in this case.

For a little while I was considering the Miata. The difference between their automatic and manual is 1 mile per gallon (34 versus 35). I’m not sure why Nissan can’t just fix the sixth gear ratio to get that highway mileage up a bit.

The other car I’m considering versus the Z is the Mustang eco-boost with the high-performance package. Yeah, it’s a bit slower than the Z (and not as attractive), but you get a lot for your dollar in that car.
 

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Nissan did a great job overall. I love the looks, they improved the sound, it's got a nostalgia feel about it, it's fast, and most importantly it seems fun.

However, at the end of the day price point matters. It's not out of consideration for me, but I was 100% a buyer of this car until the trim models were released at 41k and 53k. There's some good options in the market to consider against this with no ability to option a mid-level price point range.
 

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Welcome to 2022. Gone are the days of cheap vehicles people. When a $200,000 house is now $650,000. A $40,000 car is now $60,000. It's not the 90's anymore. Inflation's a bitch, aint it ?
 
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