Nissan 400Z Forum - Release Date, Specs, Pricing Discussion banner

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thank you for hosting a new Nissan Z forum, as a place to discuss all aspects surrounding this interesting model

I am new to this forum, but have been on a few others over time. I live in rural fly-over country in the middle of the US.

I usually have used the screen name 'BoxerFanatic, Troublesome Iconoclast', or just BoxerFanatic, on sites like Carscoops, and previously on Jalopnik/OppositeLock, before they closed out. Somehow I think that may be changing the screen name if the new Z is as good as it looks like it might be.

I still do love boxer engines of all kinds, and am very interested in Porsches, as well. But I also like rotaries, and all sorts of other interesting and even unique applications, and all sorts of cars of many types, as well as motorcycles and UTVs... but I usually end up finding examples of them that I do and don't prefer.

If I don't end up buying a Nissan Z in a couple years time... I would likely go for a 996, 997, or 981 Porsche on the used market.

I am a former Subaru enthusiast, and formerly owned a 2005 Legacy GT turbo 5-speed sedan, with a COBB stage2 tune, exhaust, and Spec.B suspension. I also had a 1992 Subaru SVX LS-L that I bought so that it wouldn't go to a car-crusher when it failed cold-start emissions, but that has been a while back since that car got moved on. I've been less than impressed with their more recent efforts.

I have also owned an NB Miata for 15 years, and before that, a 1993 Ford Probe GT, and an 88 Fox Mustang LX, and along the way a Honda Hawk GT motorcycle, so I am not new to the appeal of a sports car, or a 3-door coupe, or something uniquely well done, but uncommon. Coupes are my favorite body style, followed closely by roadsters.

I have not owned a Nissan Z, but I have long been a fan of most of them. I like the S30 original 240, 260, and 280Zs, and even the S130 280ZX. I can appreciate a clean Z31 300ZX as well. I have long loved the Z32, and believe it or not, the SVX shared componentry with that car, although was clearly a different powertrain arrangement, and body style. I like the 350Z and G35 Coupe, but am less attracted to the 370's styling.

I do currently own a Nissan product, a 2007 Titan SE pickup truck, which has been a very good and useful workhorse. I also own a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland as the primary practical driver.

I do want a fun long-term performance car in the mid-term future. Something for nice evenings, weekend trips, or events, or longer road-trip getaways... and just something to enjoy for myself after years of hard work and discipline. Something that will probably be somewhat lightly used, and kept a long time. Something to go find some twisty roads and enjoy them... or just listening to the stereo and the pipes.

Maybe the Z35 might be that car.
 

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Man, that's a mouthful, but glad you're joining. I can relate, had many diff 'types' of cars, gearhead. The smoothness of the rotary still ticks my head. In a nutshell here were my past cars road and track - 70 Barracuda (HS), 240Zs (5), Rabbit GTI (great torquey motor, fun handling daily), RX-7 (autox), 05 STi (track), E46 M3 (track), 08 G35S 6MT, NB Mazdaspeed Miata (track) - to current Xterra (overland/crawler), E60 N54 tt daily, S30 RB26DETT (track)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I do tend to write a lot.

There are a lot of greatest hits compilation cars from the 70s through the '00s in that playlist.

An RB26DETT S30 sounds like a fantastic resto-mod... hopefully it is both enjoyed on the track, and survives it. Those classics are going up in value.
 

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Welcome to the forum @TroublesomeIconoclast! What an awesome car history you've had. What about the new Z has made you think it's the one for you? As a boxer engine fan have you ever considered the Subaru BRZ or Toyota 86/GR86?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Welcome to the forum @TroublesomeIconoclast! What an awesome car history you've had. What about the new Z has made you think it's the one for you? As a boxer engine fan have you ever considered the Subaru BRZ or Toyota 86/GR86?
I haven't really considered them, for some reasons made clear by Miata. BRZ and FR-S/86 have the same drawbacks that the Miata did... tight quarters for someone like me who shops at a big and tall store.. and low torque.

While great in the twisty roads, everywhere else is not great... and on the highway it gets loud, buzzy, and tiresome... even my Legacy GT did, despite being a more comfortable car for me... 3000+ RPMs at cruise on the highway, and even higher on the interstate... The Legacy kept the engine near-boost... the Miata just needed to run that high.

My SVX was so far my favorite boxer... with it's buttery smooth flat 6. Not as much rush as the turbo 4, but for the same reason that flat-6 Porsches are favored over the 718 turbo flat 4s... the response, inherent smoothness, and sound are fantastic.

I have long wanted a Porsche, and may still go that route... but I have also admired the Nissan Z, and really liked that format of long-hood, longitudinal I6, RWD, fastback hatch, 2-seat sports car that is also capable of some touring.

It was a european formula from the likes of David Brown-era Aston Martin, Mercedes Benz 300SL, and a long line of classic Jaguars through the XKE, and some BMWs like the 507.

Knowing the history of the Z, it's tie in with Albrecht Goertz on a joint Yamaha project, A550X, which Nissan ultimately declined, got passed to Toyota as the 2000GT, but also informed Nissan's similar but less expensive S30 240Z...

While 2000GT tried to emulate the europeans' including price and exclusivity... and to a certain extent that was Skyline's role as well.
But Fairlady Z, and exported Datsun 240Z did something else...

It democratized that formula for mainstream buyers, not just luxury car buyers. I respect that more and more as I see modern automotive trends skyrocketing much higher than mainstream people can consider.

If Nissan is true to their advertising, and remembering that aspect of their past... wanting to bring something to the mainstream that is engaging and enjoyable, and not just catering toward ever higher price points (which GT-R is being criticized for lately) then that is a GREAT thing.

I have been touting the concept of a '35' performance car, or perhaps a '36' car... basically:
3500lbs or a bit less...
350 hp/tq. or a bit more... (good response is better than higher numbers with unused overhead)
$35,000 to start, and not built to poverty-spec.

BRZ, 86, and Miata are lower numbers... which is a good thing on 2 out of 3 criteria.

Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Corvette, etc... are higher numbers. increasingly $40K to $50K cars or higher. And de-contented cars with smaller engines (i4 Turbos, V6s) in those cars are not as well supported, especially by the car culture.

Supra could have been it, but it turned into a BMW Z4... a $55-60K+ car, with a de-contented I4 Turbo that is still $45K.(sacrilege for a Supra, as the whole point of the original Supra nameplate was an I6 upgrade from the I4-based Celica) and supposedly traces its lineage all the way back to the 2000GT.

Porsches start at $60K new. Used is a consideration for cross-shopping, but not apples-to-apples.

BMW 2-series is pretty much 40K+ car for a good drivetrain, but small size and 2-door sedan 3-box styling. If it were a 2+2 successor to 2002 Touring and Z4 Coupe, and had some style, (and reliability), it might be more appealing.

WRX and STI are not coupes, and not RWD... so are a bit of a different segment, but even as performance cars, they are 15 years old for all intents and purposes. BRZ really should have been a 3-door AWD sport coupe in that segment... a middle-ground successor to GC8 WRX/2.4RS, RX-II, and XT-4 Turbo. Then again, Audi should have built the 2010 Quattro Sport coupe concept based on A4 in that segment, too.

The Toyota half of that should have been a WRX-powered, 6-speed cable-shift transaxle, mid-engined RWD 4th Gen MR2. Essentially a 718S before Porsche ever even thought of going to a flat-4 turbo on the Cayman.

There is pretty much a hole in the market that 370z has been under-serving for a decade... right at that '35' car zone.
35K is right near the average new car transaction price, and in the neighborhood of half a year's average household income... which is good for a car that is more likely to be a second or third car for most buyers... or affordable for a younger buyer who might not need much more practicality.

There is really nothing else that hits that market segment for true mainstream performance cars like the New Z is looking like it will be... they either hit low on that target... or aim at much higher targets altogether, or haven't been produced.

My question now.... used Porsche with little or no depreciation left, but high upkeep costs out of warranty on a 10-20 year old car...

Or a new Z with big depreciation at first, and potential teething or cost cutting issues, but under factory warranty, and I get to choose the colors, and not wonder what the previous owners did or didn't do.
 

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I haven't really considered them, for some reasons made clear by Miata. BRZ and FR-S/86 have the same drawbacks that the Miata did... tight quarters for someone like me who shops at a big and tall store.. and low torque.

While great in the twisty roads, everywhere else is not great... and on the highway it gets loud, buzzy, and tiresome... even my Legacy GT did, despite being a more comfortable car for me... 3000+ RPMs at cruise on the highway, and even higher on the interstate... The Legacy kept the engine near-boost... the Miata just needed to run that high.

My SVX was so far my favorite boxer... with it's buttery smooth flat 6. Not as much rush as the turbo 4, but for the same reason that flat-6 Porsches are favored over the 718 turbo flat 4s... the response, inherent smoothness, and sound are fantastic.

I have long wanted a Porsche, and may still go that route... but I have also admired the Nissan Z, and really liked that format of long-hood, longitudinal I6, RWD, fastback hatch, 2-seat sports car that is also capable of some touring.

It was a european formula from the likes of David Brown-era Aston Martin, Mercedes Benz 300SL, and a long line of classic Jaguars through the XKE, and some BMWs like the 507.

Knowing the history of the Z, it's tie in with Albrecht Goertz on a joint Yamaha project, A550X, which Nissan ultimately declined, got passed to Toyota as the 2000GT, but also informed Nissan's similar but less expensive S30 240Z...

While 2000GT tried to emulate the europeans' including price and exclusivity... and to a certain extent that was Skyline's role as well.
But Fairlady Z, and exported Datsun 240Z did something else...

It democratized that formula for mainstream buyers, not just luxury car buyers. I respect that more and more as I see modern automotive trends skyrocketing much higher than mainstream people can consider.

If Nissan is true to their advertising, and remembering that aspect of their past... wanting to bring something to the mainstream that is engaging and enjoyable, and not just catering toward ever higher price points (which GT-R is being criticized for lately) then that is a GREAT thing.

I have been touting the concept of a '35' performance car, or perhaps a '36' car... basically:
3500lbs or a bit less...
350 hp/tq. or a bit more... (good response is better than higher numbers with unused overhead)
$35,000 to start, and not built to poverty-spec.

BRZ, 86, and Miata are lower numbers... which is a good thing on 2 out of 3 criteria.

Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Corvette, etc... are higher numbers. increasingly $40K to $50K cars or higher. And de-contented cars with smaller engines (i4 Turbos, V6s) in those cars are not as well supported, especially by the car culture.

Supra could have been it, but it turned into a BMW Z4... a $55-60K+ car, with a de-contented I4 Turbo that is still $45K.(sacrilege for a Supra, as the whole point of the original Supra nameplate was an I6 upgrade from the I4-based Celica) and supposedly traces its lineage all the way back to the 2000GT.

Porsches start at $60K new. Used is a consideration for cross-shopping, but not apples-to-apples.

BMW 2-series is pretty much 40K+ car for a good drivetrain, but small size and 2-door sedan 3-box styling. If it were a 2+2 successor to 2002 Touring and Z4 Coupe, and had some style, (and reliability), it might be more appealing.

WRX and STI are not coupes, and not RWD... so are a bit of a different segment, but even as performance cars, they are 15 years old for all intents and purposes. BRZ really should have been a 3-door AWD sport coupe in that segment... a middle-ground successor to GC8 WRX/2.4RS, RX-II, and XT-4 Turbo. Then again, Audi should have built the 2010 Quattro Sport coupe concept based on A4 in that segment, too.

The Toyota half of that should have been a WRX-powered, 6-speed cable-shift transaxle, mid-engined RWD 4th Gen MR2. Essentially a 718S before Porsche ever even thought of going to a flat-4 turbo on the Cayman.

There is pretty much a hole in the market that 370z has been under-serving for a decade... right at that '35' car zone.
35K is right near the average new car transaction price, and in the neighborhood of half a year's average household income... which is good for a car that is more likely to be a second or third car for most buyers... or affordable for a younger buyer who might not need much more practicality.

There is really nothing else that hits that market segment for true mainstream performance cars like the New Z is looking like it will be... they either hit low on that target... or aim at much higher targets altogether, or haven't been produced.

My question now.... used Porsche with little or no depreciation left, but high upkeep costs out of warranty on a 10-20 year old car...

Or a new Z with big depreciation at first, and potential teething or cost cutting issues, but under factory warranty, and I get to choose the colors, and not wonder what the previous owners did or didn't do.
Which model Porsche(s) would you be looking at in contrast to the Z? For me I'd only consider a 911 but even then I'd still go with the Z because it's nice to have a warranty if (god forbid) something goes wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Which model Porsche(s) would you be looking at in contrast to the Z? For me I'd only consider a 911 but even then I'd still go with the Z because it's nice to have a warranty if (god forbid) something goes wrong.
Front-runners would be a 996 Carrera or Carrera 4S, maybe a 997 Carrera. early 991 Carrera is probably still a bit high priced for me, but would love one. A 991 Carrera T would be great, but haven't depreciated much yet.

I would consider a special example of any flat-6 generation of Boxster, but I would probably prefer a 981 Cayman or Cayman S, as I like the roofline and looks a little better than 987 Cayman body, but I would prefer the naturally aspirated flat-6 over the turbo-4 of the 718.
Even moreso after JayEmm's youtube review of the base 718 Cayman being disappointingly laggy and low on power even for a 2.0T, despite a sublime chassis and suspension. Stepping up o 718S adds thousands of dollars, and still isn't a flat-6. GTS 4.0 and GT4 are way more expensive.

Throw in consideration for a nice example of a Lotus Evora S, for good measure.
 
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