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The new fuel economy rules, issued Friday by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, require carmakers to heighten the fuel-efficiency of their fleets by 8% annually for the 2024 and 2025 model years, and 10% for 2026, according to a senior administration official.




what implications will this have on the Z? as at 25/26mpg this will drag the average way down right? not to mention nissans trucks and SUVs. throwing an Ariya into the mix wont get their #'s up to that
 

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what implications will this have on the Z? as at 25/26mpg this will drag the average way down right? not to mention nissans trucks and SUVs
Our government has gone completely nuts. I could go on but then someone would start crying.
 

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this explains a little better 49mpg is an unadjusted figure and some are saying the average car will just need to be in the 30's

also reading about existing loopholes in regulations where this might not be a doomsday for sports cars as it seems?

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this explains a little better 49mpg is an unadjusted figure and some are saying the average car will just need to be in the 30's

also reading about existing loopholes in regulations where this might not be a doomsday for sports cars as it seems?

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I’ll I will admit I didn’t read it , I just started crying in my beer. 🙈
 

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The good news is that this is an executive policy and was not passed by Congress (like a normal representative democracy). The next president can simply repeal the policy or issue a new executive order making the old one irrelevant. Could be a long shot but there's a chance.
 

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Honestly, this will not impact the Z. Everything is average. I don't expect the Z to be a huge volume seller. So, even with the Z getting nowhere near the 50mpg, the other much more fuel efficient offerings will get the job done.

But car buying habits will have to change to meet the fuel economy averages. Say bye bye to your full size SUV.

Last point; new drivetrains take years to certify with the gov't. No way the 2026 numbers are attainable unless eye watering amounts of money is thrown at the problem. And that will be 100% funded by us...not the manufacturers.
 

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Nissan is open to offering a hybridized Z if we really want it.
"What would be surprising is to see a hybrid powertrain, which Tamura said is also in the cards. Again, he said it's up to the "customer voice." If fans want an electrified Z, then "we have to do that." He added, "everything must be considered" as they look into the Z's future. This is a bit of a departure from what Nissan's vice president of global product strategy, Ivan Espinosa, said back in July. He suggested a hybrid isn't likely, and if it is, such a car is a long way out. He didn't rule it out, but it certainly sounds like Nissan's more focused on core engine technologies for the Z at the moment. The automaker declined to comment on Tamura's remarks."
 

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I don't know how you make performance cars in with MPG standards that high. Then again, maybe just full EV... the switch to EV might come sooner than later.
Nissan going all-electric is likely it, the window to launch a hybrid is closing fast. The Ariya EV is already here and it apparently has some Z sports car DNA (according to Nissan), so an electric Z and GT-R by 2026 seems doable. I just wonder which will arrive first, an electrified R36 GT-R or Z?
 

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what implications will this have on the Z? as at 25/26mpg this will drag the average way down right? not to mention nissans trucks and SUVs. throwing an Ariya into the mix wont get their #'s up to that
Hopefully most of Nissan’s offerings going electric will provide enough leeway for the low-volume Z to remain ICE-powered (and still offer a stick). I’d love a hybrid Z but that power train couldn’t be justified - cost wise - unless shared with another product and I can’t think of a current Nissan that would be suitable though it could be used in any higher-performance Infiniti.
 

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Hopefully most of Nissan’s offerings going electric will provide enough leeway for the low-volume Z to remain ICE-powered (and still offer a stick). I’d love a hybrid Z but that power train couldn’t be justified - cost wise - unless shared with another product and I can’t think of a current Nissan that would be suitable though it could be used in any higher-performance Infiniti.
I have a feeling that the Z will be the last Nissan product to get electrified, so when the time comes it should already be obvious where a lot of its electric powertrain will come from. Before that I think we'll see an electrified GT-R.
 

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I think you’re right about the Z being the last ICE Nissan standing. Also, I agree about the GT-R. It’ll be electrified because once you take the manual transmission out of a performance car (or never give it one in the first place) it’s not as enthusiast-focused and becomes all about shaving tenths, which E-cars do better than ICE.
 

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I fully expect hybridization is the only way to justify ICE sports and performance cars continuing to exist - and thus manual transmissions - into the next decade. Once full electrification occurs, there’s no more stick. For the record, if anyone at Nissan is counting, there’s a zero percent chance of me buying an EV Z car whereas I’m 100% all-in on buying a future hybrid Z.
 

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I fully expect hybridization is the only way to justify ICE sports and performance cars continuing to exist - and thus manual transmissions - into the next decade. Once full electrification occurs, there’s no more stick. For the record, if anyone at Nissan is counting, there’s a zero percent chance of me buying an EV Z car whereas I’m 100% all-in on buying a future hybrid Z.

That's probably the closest thing you'll get. Kind of cool to see them thinking about things like that for the future.
 

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That's probably the closest thing you'll get. Kind of cool to see them thinking about things like that for the future.
While a stick for EVs is an interesting proposition, my gut says it’s all gotta be too simulated to match a real mechanical stick. I just can’t see myself and other purists or enthusiasts buying into it on a large scale. Once the last ICE sports car rolls off the line, I’d rather buy a used ICE sports car with a stick than an EV with the same. That a Toyota “manual” may go into an EV means there won’t be any of the aural thrill of an ICE engine, nor will it have any of the tactile and desirable NVH inherent in an ICE sports car. Someone might say they can pipe in some ICE sounds to fix that but it just won’t work - there’s a very intimate mechanical interplay between man and machine which incorporates tactile and aural sensations that simply cannot be duplicated. All things considered, I think I’d feel like an idiot buying an EV with a dedicated manual transmission. When I buy an EV - which I eventually will for DD - it’ll be an automatic, as it should be in such a car. If a simulated manual transmission can be defeated to default to an auto transmission, that might be an interesting feature for a DD EV - I’d be interested in that - but it’d never replace the ICE sports or performance car with a stick in my driveway.
I don't know how you make performance cars in with MPG standards that high. Then again, maybe just full EV... the switch to EV might come sooner than later.
A low-volume ICE car like the Z could be hybridized to improve fuel economy by 20-30 percent which means it’d have little impact on CAFE and thus continue to be viable for at least another decade.
 

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While a stick for EVs is an interesting proposition, my gut says it’s all gotta be too simulated to match a real mechanical stick. I just can’t see myself and other purists or enthusiasts buying into it on a large scale. Once the last ICE sports car rolls off the line, I’d rather buy a used ICE sports car with a stick than an EV with the same. That a Toyota “manual” may go into an EV means there won’t be any of the aural thrill of an ICE engine, nor will it have any of the tactile and desirable NVH inherent in an ICE sports car. Someone might say they can pipe in some ICE sounds to fix that but it just won’t work - there’s a very intimate mechanical interplay between man and machine which incorporates tactile and aural sensations that simply cannot be duplicated. All things considered, I think I’d feel like an idiot buying an EV with a dedicated manual transmission. When I buy an EV - which I eventually will for DD - it’ll be an automatic, as it should be in such a car. If a simulated manual transmission can be defeated to default to an auto transmission, that might be an interesting feature for a DD EV - I’d be interested in that - but it’d never replace the ICE sports or performance car with a stick in my driveway.

A low-volume ICE car like the Z could be hybridized to improve fuel economy by 20-30 percent which means it’d have little impact on CAFE and thus continue to be viable for at least another decade.
I bet that Toyota has a plan for that as well, to make their MT EVs give the type of feedback and overall feel that MT ICE cars do. Some automakers already do certain things to make EVs feel more ICE.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
now this


California is expected to put into effect on Thursday its sweeping plan to prohibit the sale of new gasoline-powered cars by 2035, a groundbreaking move that could have major effects on the effort to fight climate change and accelerate a global transition toward electric vehicles.

The rule, issued by the California Air Resources Board, will require that 100 percent of all new cars sold in the state by 2035 be free of the fossil fuel emissions chiefly responsible for warming the planet, up from 12 percent today. It sets interim targets requiring that 35 percent of new passenger vehicles sold in the state by 2026 produce zero emissions. That would climb to 68 percent by 2030.

The restrictions are important because not only is California the largest auto market in the United States, but more than a dozen other states typically follow California’s lead when setting their own auto emissions standards.
 

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Imposing, but not a surprise since California takes the “environmentalist leap” before the rest of the country begins to follow suit. 12.5 years to go… Regardless, 12.5 years from now (and well beyond then) there’ll be plenty of enterprising people buying desirable ICE cars new who’ll legally resell them as used to people in Cali and the other states following suit. Between now and then enthusiasts will snatch up every ICE sports and performance car the manufacturers are willing to make, especially those with sticks.

I can see the Z remaining an ICE car on the existing new-old chassis for the next 12 years (not worth it to Nissan to redo it) unless there’ll be new laws/regs incentivizing Nissan to hybridize the car though I don’t see how there’d be a financial justification for the relatively low volume to be sold at that time. We’ll see.
 
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