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336 Posts
Welcome @TBonek.
Would you get lighter seats, carbon fiber hood and rear hatch and other weight reduction modifications like it?
They can be expensive, but can also make a big difference.
What Modifications are you planning for the Z?
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Would you get lighter seats, carbon fiber hood and rear hatch and other weight reduction modifications like it?
They can be expensive, but can also make a big difference.
Joined
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50 Posts
Charge coolers can be done right, but it is complex... then again, so is adding a ton of volume and high-flow, lag-inducing charge-air plumbing for A2A intercooling.
Liquid being higher density than air has greater surface area contact, and is generally a bit more forgiving to plumb.
But the thermal exchange has to be right in two places, both for charge-air to liquid, and liquid to ambient air, as well as additional pumping for circulation.
I have heard that some charge coolers use the cold-side of the engine coolant circuit (after the radiator has cooled it, before the engine heats the coolant again) for charge cooling... but then if the engine runs hot, the radiator temperature drop may not be enough of to also be far enough below the intake charge temperature to pull that heat away, too.
Plus, if the heat exchangers in the intake tract are near the cylinder heads, not heat shielded and insulated from the aluminum cylinder heads... the charge cooler ends up getting thermal load from the engine as well. Phenolic spacers to isolate thermal conductivity, heat shields to reflect ambient heat soak, under-hood airflow management, as well as surface area and thermal mass of the charge cooling system itself all come into play.
But it does shorten the run, and reduce the volume of the charged air intake system, and reduce the compressor side of the lag factor of building pressure from the turbo compressor through large diameter, high-flow tubes, low-restriction, high surface area intercoolers, more tubes, past the blow-off valve, through the throttle-body, and into the throttled intake manifolds, cylinder heads, through the valve lift opening and filling the cylinders.
The more volume that is, the longer time it takes, and the more chances that something has changed during that time... It magnifies the issues with both smaller, low-lag turbos, which have a harder time building that intake pressure quickly, or larger turbos that introduce more turbine-side lag while exhaust pressures rise, and the turbo's heavier spinning assembly accelerates slightly slower, due to inertia. Every time the blow-off valve releases a large volume of air from the intake tract, that pressure has to build again.
There are advantages to making a short, high flow, but lower total volume intake tract work with a liquid charge-cooling system, if done right, especially if lag is to be avoided to more closely resemble an atmospheric engine's quick, direct responsiveness.
Liquid being higher density than air has greater surface area contact, and is generally a bit more forgiving to plumb.
But the thermal exchange has to be right in two places, both for charge-air to liquid, and liquid to ambient air, as well as additional pumping for circulation.
I have heard that some charge coolers use the cold-side of the engine coolant circuit (after the radiator has cooled it, before the engine heats the coolant again) for charge cooling... but then if the engine runs hot, the radiator temperature drop may not be enough of to also be far enough below the intake charge temperature to pull that heat away, too.
Plus, if the heat exchangers in the intake tract are near the cylinder heads, not heat shielded and insulated from the aluminum cylinder heads... the charge cooler ends up getting thermal load from the engine as well. Phenolic spacers to isolate thermal conductivity, heat shields to reflect ambient heat soak, under-hood airflow management, as well as surface area and thermal mass of the charge cooling system itself all come into play.
But it does shorten the run, and reduce the volume of the charged air intake system, and reduce the compressor side of the lag factor of building pressure from the turbo compressor through large diameter, high-flow tubes, low-restriction, high surface area intercoolers, more tubes, past the blow-off valve, through the throttle-body, and into the throttled intake manifolds, cylinder heads, through the valve lift opening and filling the cylinders.
The more volume that is, the longer time it takes, and the more chances that something has changed during that time... It magnifies the issues with both smaller, low-lag turbos, which have a harder time building that intake pressure quickly, or larger turbos that introduce more turbine-side lag while exhaust pressures rise, and the turbo's heavier spinning assembly accelerates slightly slower, due to inertia. Every time the blow-off valve releases a large volume of air from the intake tract, that pressure has to build again.
There are advantages to making a short, high flow, but lower total volume intake tract work with a liquid charge-cooling system, if done right, especially if lag is to be avoided to more closely resemble an atmospheric engine's quick, direct responsiveness.
Joined
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362 Posts
You can always try and find lighter wheels than the stock ones. If you're turning the Z into a race car you remove the passenger and rear seats.
Joined
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50 Posts
I've always kind of wondered who makes up the market for buying a brand new car to gut for a race car, and why they would choose that over a myriad of aftermarket options for track oriented cars.
If I was going to pay 35 grand for a race car... it would not be a new Z... it would be a Sierra Cars 700R or something like it. A used Ariel Atom or KTM X-bow... or build a custom Exocet or Bauer Catfish based on Miata running gear with the engine of your choice... (20B Rotary, RB26, LS-V8... whatever) or a 'cart-ified' C5 Corvette chassis... a Caterham/Lotus7... a Factory Five 818 with a WRX or STI engine...
Any new car would be the LAST choice of something I would turn into a dedicated track car that would be gutted for weight.
If it has to be a Z... S130 280ZX, and Z31 300ZX donors are still attainable... S30 early cars, and Z32s are getting expensive. Z34 350Z donor cars are an option... Throw a VK56DE V8 in one of those!
If I was going to pay 35 grand for a race car... it would not be a new Z... it would be a Sierra Cars 700R or something like it. A used Ariel Atom or KTM X-bow... or build a custom Exocet or Bauer Catfish based on Miata running gear with the engine of your choice... (20B Rotary, RB26, LS-V8... whatever) or a 'cart-ified' C5 Corvette chassis... a Caterham/Lotus7... a Factory Five 818 with a WRX or STI engine...
Any new car would be the LAST choice of something I would turn into a dedicated track car that would be gutted for weight.
If it has to be a Z... S130 280ZX, and Z31 300ZX donors are still attainable... S30 early cars, and Z32s are getting expensive. Z34 350Z donor cars are an option... Throw a VK56DE V8 in one of those!
Joined
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362 Posts
I agree, it wouldn't be for me either but it's crazy sometimes how quickly some new cars get turned into race cars. I kind of get it if you have sponsors to back it but even then it could be used towards something else.
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37 Posts
We will be working with some of the companies that we already work with (CSF, GReddy, TOYO, PSM Dynamic as of now), so the list of modifications is already mapped out
CSF aluminum radiator
CSF oil cooler / PS cooler
GReddy front mount intercooler
GReddy intake
GReddy blow off valve
GReddy exhaust
GReddy x KW coilovers
I will rebuild my LMGT1s to 19s and those will go on the car
19x9.5 +14 / 19x10.5 +15
TOYO tires
We will work with PSM Dynamic on bringing a front lip and rear spoiler to the market, as well as possible side skirts and rear splats. Then 2.0 VERSION will be a wide body Wangan Midnight iteration from Arnold Design.
I'm sure we'll add things here and there as parts come out for the vehicle.
CSF aluminum radiator
CSF oil cooler / PS cooler
GReddy front mount intercooler
GReddy intake
GReddy blow off valve
GReddy exhaust
GReddy x KW coilovers
I will rebuild my LMGT1s to 19s and those will go on the car
19x9.5 +14 / 19x10.5 +15
TOYO tires
We will work with PSM Dynamic on bringing a front lip and rear spoiler to the market, as well as possible side skirts and rear splats. Then 2.0 VERSION will be a wide body Wangan Midnight iteration from Arnold Design.
I'm sure we'll add things here and there as parts come out for the vehicle.
Joined
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330 Posts
A proper sports car like the Z will end up in the hands of many types of enthusiasts, from the aftermarket to fully sponsored race teams modifying and gutting the Z. To each its own, really, it all depends on budget and purpose.
In my case I'll be taking lots of baselines from stock and slowly upgrading from tires to brakes to suspension tuning (but not gutting interiors, nor crazy engine mods). Stock 400hp is plenty for this relatively light car. I will put on lots of track time on track days, local Nissan Challenge group events, maybe even some autocross. Any Z car is made to be pushed to some limits, go sign up on your local track days, find good organizers that lets you move up with experience, you might just get hooked!
For sure I'll be swapping back and forth with my current RB26 toy, almost certain the new Z will spank it right off the bat, it better be!
In my case I'll be taking lots of baselines from stock and slowly upgrading from tires to brakes to suspension tuning (but not gutting interiors, nor crazy engine mods). Stock 400hp is plenty for this relatively light car. I will put on lots of track time on track days, local Nissan Challenge group events, maybe even some autocross. Any Z car is made to be pushed to some limits, go sign up on your local track days, find good organizers that lets you move up with experience, you might just get hooked!
For sure I'll be swapping back and forth with my current RB26 toy, almost certain the new Z will spank it right off the bat, it better be!
Joined
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50 Posts
People can of course do as they like with their money and property. I wholly support that freedom.
And I do get that there are production-based race classes... although the ones that remain street legal and close to production spec seem to make more sense than the classes that are more highly modified...
However, logically, taking something that has been designed and outfitted to be a road car, and a sports car, sold new with a warranty to that effect, and immediately depreciates upon driving it off the lot....
Seems like a waste to undo half that work, redo the other half of the work, to create something that is not ideal, not as optimized as something purpose-designed to be a race car, and takes whatever resale value is left after depreciation, and pretty much dump that, too...
When the same budget could buy or build something intended for the track, directly from the drawing board.
Kinda like spending money on a new Wrangler (or soon to include Bronco), double the MSRP with expensive mods that make it a worse on-road vehicle, and an even heavier truck in general, and go roll it over on a trail and total it... when a side-by-side UTV is more off-road capable and oriented right off the bat, and with less money, can be made even more capable on trails, dunes, or rocks... and if it gets wrecked, your insured, debt-leveraged, daily-driver is still at the trail-head still ready to go home, assuming that you are also.
I get that some circumstances call for one object to be versatile in multiple roles... but a trail rig or a track car are not that.
That gets into the age-old adage of having the right tool for the right job... and that doesn't mean using a torque wrench as a ratchet, let alone a tire iron, or a hammer.
And I do get that there are production-based race classes... although the ones that remain street legal and close to production spec seem to make more sense than the classes that are more highly modified...
However, logically, taking something that has been designed and outfitted to be a road car, and a sports car, sold new with a warranty to that effect, and immediately depreciates upon driving it off the lot....
Seems like a waste to undo half that work, redo the other half of the work, to create something that is not ideal, not as optimized as something purpose-designed to be a race car, and takes whatever resale value is left after depreciation, and pretty much dump that, too...
When the same budget could buy or build something intended for the track, directly from the drawing board.
Kinda like spending money on a new Wrangler (or soon to include Bronco), double the MSRP with expensive mods that make it a worse on-road vehicle, and an even heavier truck in general, and go roll it over on a trail and total it... when a side-by-side UTV is more off-road capable and oriented right off the bat, and with less money, can be made even more capable on trails, dunes, or rocks... and if it gets wrecked, your insured, debt-leveraged, daily-driver is still at the trail-head still ready to go home, assuming that you are also.
I get that some circumstances call for one object to be versatile in multiple roles... but a trail rig or a track car are not that.
That gets into the age-old adage of having the right tool for the right job... and that doesn't mean using a torque wrench as a ratchet, let alone a tire iron, or a hammer.
Ya'll wanna see some (engine) porn?
AMS 3.2L Closed-Desk VR30 Block.
😏
AMS 3.2L Closed-Desk VR30 Block.
😏
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103 Posts
Says I need to log in.Ya'll wanna see some (engine) porn?
AMS 3.2L Closed-Desk VR30 Block.
Can you post the pics?
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330 Posts
That’s some potential, ahead of the game, very nice! Easily nudging 1000 hp possible👍Ya'll wanna see some (engine) porn?
AMS 3.2L Closed-Desk VR30 Block.
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