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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Interesting and possible if the new Z doesn't deliver, although still comes in at $54K+. New Z should still undercut this with the 400HP TT but the handling should also match or exceed that given power, will see.

With the $3K Handling Pkg...... 2021 Ford Mustang Mach 1 First Drive Review: Thunder Macher!

"In the Mach 1, we were comfortable halfway through the first lap. As usual, Michelin's inimitable Cup 2s continue to be street-legal cheat codes for track work; teamed with the magnetorheological suspension, the sticky shoes lowered the learning curve, and quick. The Mach 1's power delivery is linear and caramel-thick, and it corners with no surprises whatsoever, even when treating the throttle as you might in a rental slicing through the Rockies.
Confidence, confidence, confidence. Like all Mustangs of this generation, the steering is light and lacking in ultimate feel, but the Mach 1's setup is accurate and spectacularly predictable. Any oversteer is telegraphed early and could be caught with buttered palms, and the assist systems, well, assist with a light touch. If you stick a boot too far up the Mach 1's rear and need to haul everything back down to sanity, the Brembos bite strong and fade late, but we were only able to pace the cars through two hot laps before a cool-down, so your mileage may vary during extended track days.
Front-end grip is tremendous, leading to bulk-defying turn-in speeds and late braking. Again, predictability is the predominant sensation, with impeccable combination footwork from the tires, suspension, and Shelby-grade rear assembly.

Transmission Triumph
The Tremec six-speed is the real star of the Mach 1's track day show; compared to the GT and Bullitt's MT82, the Tremec is smooth and easier to shift quickly. Unlike the GT350's version of the 3160, though, the Mach 1's 'box incorporates the GT and Bullitt's rev-match and no-lift-shift functions."
 

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Interesting and possible if the new Z doesn't deliver, although still comes in at $54K+. New Z should still undercut this with the 400HP TT but the handling should also match or exceed that given power, will see.

With the $3K Handling Pkg...... 2021 Ford Mustang Mach 1 First Drive Review: Thunder Macher!

"In the Mach 1, we were comfortable halfway through the first lap. As usual, Michelin's inimitable Cup 2s continue to be street-legal cheat codes for track work; teamed with the magnetorheological suspension, the sticky shoes lowered the learning curve, and quick. The Mach 1's power delivery is linear and caramel-thick, and it corners with no surprises whatsoever, even when treating the throttle as you might in a rental slicing through the Rockies.
Confidence, confidence, confidence. Like all Mustangs of this generation, the steering is light and lacking in ultimate feel, but the Mach 1's setup is accurate and spectacularly predictable. Any oversteer is telegraphed early and could be caught with buttered palms, and the assist systems, well, assist with a light touch. If you stick a boot too far up the Mach 1's rear and need to haul everything back down to sanity, the Brembos bite strong and fade late, but we were only able to pace the cars through two hot laps before a cool-down, so your mileage may vary during extended track days.
Front-end grip is tremendous, leading to bulk-defying turn-in speeds and late braking. Again, predictability is the predominant sensation, with impeccable combination footwork from the tires, suspension, and Shelby-grade rear assembly.

Transmission Triumph
The Tremec six-speed is the real star of the Mach 1's track day show; compared to the GT and Bullitt's MT82, the Tremec is smooth and easier to shift quickly. Unlike the GT350's version of the 3160, though, the Mach 1's 'box incorporates the GT and Bullitt's rev-match and no-lift-shift functions."
It will be interesting to see a comparison between both cars. I've always respected Ford for turning the Mustang into a car that can actually handles its own around corners and on a track rather than just a drag racer like Dodge.

But if (god forbid) the Z doesn't deliver for some reason, I don't know if the first place I'd go is the Mustang.
 

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I am cross-shopping with the next-gen BMW M2 (due out next year) and possibly the next-gen Subaru WRX-STI also due out next year, if it doesn't look like ass, like most of the previous and current versions.
My requirements are 2 doors and a manual trans with some power (ruling out the GR86/ BRZ and the MX-5), and on the smaller/lighter side, (ruling out the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang).
 

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Not sure if it is cross shopping as I'll still get the new Z, but currently looking into getting either an S30 or Z32TT for a project. Can't decide between the 2, but I do want another Z to play with and restore.
 

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My case isn't so much cross-shopping, as it's 2 different vehicle wants with only enough money to buy one.
I KNOW I want a Z35. I also want, and kind of need to replace my truck, and I am looking at the upcoming Tundra.
Seems both the Z35 and the new Tundra are going to become available about the same time, early next year.
I currently have a Q60 with about 50K miles on it, so I don't really need a new Z35, but my Nissan Titan is 15 years old and getting worn out, so if the new Tundra comes out 1st, I may have to wait a few years to get a Z35.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
My case isn't so much cross-shopping, as it's 2 different vehicle wants with only enough money to buy one.
I get your point. I was really impressed with the new Frontier when revealed this year, thinking what if Nissan brings back the Xterra based on THAT design! Fortunately that won't happen, my current 2nd Gen has been a great built off-road rig, very capable, but miles are piling up. There is no way I can afford both within a year of each other, so the new Z is it.

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I get your point. I was really impressed with the new Frontier when revealed this year, thinking what if Nissan brings back the Xterra based on THAT design! Fortunately that won't happen, my current 2nd Gen has been a great built off-road rig, very capable, but miles are piling up. There is no way I can afford both within a year of each other, so the new Z is it.

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Our Titan is setup for offroading also, I've added a TruTrac HLSD locker to it, OEM skid plates, Bilsteins and it has lowered gearing. It is our main road trip vehicle. Earlier this year we went on a west coast overlanding trip with it. I freaking love that truck, it is a tall order to replace it.
It will be expensive to kit out my next truck the same way my current truck is, over the course of 12 years I have spread the cost of upgrades out, many of which will need to be bought right away for a new rig, such as a fiberglass capper, proper off-road tires and lighting, just further pushing the cost up.
Pretty sure an equivalent modern FS truck with upgrades to replace my Titan will be at least $60K, if not $70K.
Getting a new truck will seriously impact my car budget, however it is possible to keep "ol' girl" a few years longer, if I do it'll need a bit of maintenance......
IMG_20200308_145250291_HDR.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Maybe think about a mechanical restoration on the truck? A few grand compared to tens of thousands...
Agree with this. If you’ve kept up the maint plus those upgrades @takemorepills I would keep the Titan. How many miles has it? I’d think driving the new Z would give you much more grins sooner.

I plan to keep my Xterra until at least 250k, now at 160.
 

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The M2 comp and upcoming M2 will produce more torque and hp than the Z. Unless the Z comes with a tuned up vr30
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The M2 comp and upcoming M2 will produce more torque and hp than the Z. Unless the Z comes with a tuned up vr30
Those are couple of my options, driven a couple, but pricing is too high for what they are, same with the Cayman S or GT4.

Hoping the Z will be competitively priced, then upgrade later.
 

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Those are couple of my options, driven a couple, but pricing is too high for what they are, same with the Cayman S or GT4.

Hoping the Z will be competitively priced, then upgrade later.
Since im in Europe a supercharged GR86 is very tempting if you have the cash. 330hp at 1200kg is not bad
 

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The M2 comp and upcoming M2 will produce more torque and hp than the Z. Unless the Z comes with a tuned up vr30
Yes, but $15k-$20k more. You could do a lot of aftermarket with that coin.
Stock-for-stock, the M2 will always outperform the Z, but again, spend more money you can always find something faster.
I am encouraged by the proposed weight (less than 3300 lb) of the new Z. IIRC, the outgoing M2 Comp was up around 3600 lb or more. Plenty of power to offset the weight, but at some point you lose the ability to be described as "nimble" or "tossable".
That's one of my issues with a Mustang. They've gotten so big and heavy that despite improved track handling, they feel like a big car.

That said, I may still go with the M2 if the Z is at all disappointing. The Supra becomes an option too, if it appears with a manual next year.
 

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36k can bag a m2 comp in UK. Thats around $50k stateside
Assuming we're talking new, not used, in the US (states/regions may vary) you can probably score a $60k MSRP M2 comp for somewhere between $50k and $55k given a variety of discounts available and a good relationship with a dealership. That's before taxes (around $4k in my state). At least that was the last time I looked into it, which was before it became the outgoing model, so it might be a little better now.

Regardless, that's still $10-$15k more than we expect the Z to be.
Now, the next Gen M2 with the S58 engine will be significantly more powerful and probably a tad more expensive ($2-$5k), but will further increase the power gulf between M2 and Z.

So we'll see. I am not really worried about the price difference, and I don't necessarily need all the additional power the M2 will have over the Z. For me it will come down to the driving experience and details.
For instance, if the Z has good hydraulic steering rather than the BMW's not-so-great EPS, that's a big point in the Z's favor. If it is down in the low 4's 0-60, that'll be good enough for me.

At the end of the day, about next summer I am going to look at several cars - the new M2, the new M240, the Z (regular and NISMO model), the Mk 8 Golf R, the Supra (if it comes out in a manual to compete with the Z as rumored), and maybe even the upcoming Subaru STI before making the decision.

My only must-have is a manual transmission in a small-ish fun car. And since manuals are going to become unavailable some day, it may be a forever car, so I'll definitely do my research.

It's going to be a fun time to be in the sports car market.
 

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Maybe think about a mechanical restoration on the truck? A few grand compared to tens of thousands...
Agree with this. If you’ve kept up the maint plus those upgrades @takemorepills I would keep the Titan. How many miles has it? I’d think driving the new Z would give you much more grins sooner.

I plan to keep my Xterra until at least 250k, now at 160.
The truck only has 100K on it, but is 15 years old. I am very hard on it, and recently really pushed it at Bulldog Canyon in AZ and caused the front diff to begin seeping. That's a $2500 repair. It does make more sense to just put some money into it, as long as I can still buy OEM Nissan parts for it. A new truck, especially what I am looking at will be very expensive. We just took it camping last weekend and it still drives amazingly, and I drive new trucks all the time at work. The Titan still feels very new and relevant.
 

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Assuming we're talking new, not used, in the US (states/regions may vary) you can probably score a $60k MSRP M2 comp for somewhere between $50k and $55k given a variety of discounts available and a good relationship with a dealership. That's before taxes (around $4k in my state). At least that was the last time I looked into it, which was before it became the outgoing model, so it might be a little better now.

Regardless, that's still $10-$15k more than we expect the Z to be.
Now, the next Gen M2 with the S58 engine will be significantly more powerful and probably a tad more expensive ($2-$5k), but will further increase the power gulf between M2 and Z.

At the end of the day, about next summer I am going to look at several cars - the new M2, the new M240, the Z (regular and NISMO model), the Mk 8 Golf R, the Supra (if it comes out in a manual to compete with the Z as rumored), and maybe even the upcoming Subaru STI before making the decision.

My only must-have is a manual transmission in a small-ish fun car. And since manuals are going to become unavailable some day, it may be a forever car, so I'll definitely do my research.
If I were going to lease, I'd definitely consider a German car. The only car I ever leased was a German car, and for good reason! Awesome to drive, terrible to own post-warranty.

Maybe lease an M2 to get it out of your blood, then buy the Z later on to keep. BTW, as I am sure you know, the Supra is German and falls squarely into the lease category. It's going to make a terrible "Toyota" when they are older and out of warranty.
 

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Yeah brand new id let someone else take the hit. I saved 15k on the 370Z Nismo as a result with 3k miles. Thats the plan with this Z in Japan. Ill be looking at prices after 12 months.
 

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If I were going to lease, I'd definitely consider a German car. The only car I ever leased was a German car, and for good reason! Awesome to drive, terrible to own post-warranty.

Maybe lease an M2 to get it out of your blood, then buy the Z later on to keep. BTW, as I am sure you know, the Supra is German and falls squarely into the lease category. It's going to make a terrible "Toyota" when they are older and out of warranty.
Yeah, I get that line of thinking, and it definitely has merit if you don't like owning out-of-warranty cars, but in my experience long-term owning a BMW isn't as bad as people make it out. They don't break any more than most any other brand, they're just more expensive to repair when they do. It's not like Toyotas and Hondas don't break, especially the newer ones. Sure, they developed a reputation for reliability, but that was mostly decades ago when American car reliability was terrible by comparison and cars were much simpler (fewer systems to break). Nowadays Toyotas and Hondas mostly coast on that old reputation for reliability while not really being significantly more reliable than other brands. And let's be honest: Nissan has never benefitted from a reputation for extreme reliability.

I currently own and daily drive a tuned and modded 2012 BMW 135 that I've been driving since 2015. The CPO warranty on top of factory that remained when I bought it definitely paid for itself and then some. Since going out of warranty a few years ago, I have had a few expensive repairs, but the key is to use independent shops - don't go to BMW dealerships for out-of-warranty repairs unless it's something that an indy shop can't fix (which does happen from time to time).

That said, while BMWs are a little more expensive to repair, ANY make of car out of warranty has the potential to cost you big $$, so you should always keep some repair cash on hand if you want to long-term own a car.

YMMV, and I have heard horror stories about post-warranty BMW repairs, but my experience hasn't been that bad.
 
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